[Avodah] is mayim acharonim a chumra?

[Michael Poppers]

RSP replied:
> if anyone washes his hand after the meal for whatever reason, especially 
if he feels that his hands are greasy, then tur and the mechaber all state 
that he is obligated in mayim acharonim <
I think one needs to add the word "regularly" before "washes."  So, how 
many of us regularly wash our hands after eating a meal?

> oh, i know what the darkei moshe wrote, and is found at the end of the 
darkei moshe ha'aruch on the siman.  but just as he reacted to the BY in 
the darchei moshe and explicity stated that the minhag is like tosophot, 
why didn't he do that in the SA?  and that brings us to the issue of 
retraction. is his silence a retraction or not? <
Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the subject can enlighten us on 
whether an argument from silence (in this case, the lack of a "hagahah" by 
RMA upon SA OC 181 when he explicitly commented upon what the BY wrote) is 
valid, here or, indeed, anywhere except when you witness the sh'siqah of a 
Rav and can truly say k'hoda'ah damya.

>>> Finally the great forerunner of all minhag ashkenaz, the maharil, also 
obligated mayim acharonim, see spitzer ed., p. 117, no. 41, and especially 
note heh. <<<
>> Could I bother you to quote the phraseology verbatim? Online, the words 
of the Lublin 1590 edition (http://hebrewbooks.org/11762 -- see 
pp.160-161) don't tell me anything about a mandate for mayim acharonim but 
rather seem to relate to explaining an "over la'asiyasan" question brought 
by Tos'fos. Thanks. <<
> see further post with attachment <
Thanks for sending me a scan of a seifer listing "seider haHagadah."  I 
would agree that the language of #41 (and of #40) tells us that mayim 
acharonim was perforce done by at least the "m'vareich" of Bircas haMazon 
(the one we would nowadays call the "leader" of BhM) after the eating of 
the afiqoman and that Shinui Nuschaos 41:5 adds (I don't know whether this 
is an actual nusach in a copy of Seifer MaHaRYL or comes from the author 
of SN, and the nafka mina is crucial!), "achein MaHaRYL, b'chal pa'am 
shenatal yadav, amar lab'churim [v'ham'subin] gam-kein litol."  I've 
previously seen MaHaRYL misquoted (e.g. re whether a bachur should not 
wear a talis until he's married), so I would very much like to know if 
that "achein" can be sourced.  Also, note the subfootnote 5, which 
elucidates, "Lichora, haMaHaRaSH s'vira leih...d'mayim acharonim tiqnu 
lim'vareich l'fi shemazkir es haSheim...ush'ar m'subin hu raq mip'nei 
hasakanah, v'savar haMaHaRaSH d'hayom ein sakanah v'lachein ein tzrichim 
litol y'deihem k'lal, v'chein heivi deiah zu b'Seifer haMinhagim 'Leil 
haSeider' 53:1."  The bottom line seems to be that mayim acharonim was 
l'chat'chilah done at the table of MaHaRYL at least during leil haSeider 
by at least whomever would actually be saying BhM.

All the best from
Michael Poppers * Elizabeth, NJ, USA
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20090430/45107770/attachment-0001.htm>