[Avodah] Kolech calls for dayanot

[Yitzhak Grossman]

On Mon, 22 Dec 2008 10:13:20 -0500
Zev Sero <zev at sero.name> wrote:

...

> How is the scope of DdMD broader than the scope of ordinary kiblu?
> "Dina" is by definition a matter of mamonot, and every single example
> of DdMD is about determini

Incorrect.  Based at least partially on the Gemara's (BM 83b) narrative
of R. Elazar B. Shimon's service as a government investigator, who
would catch thieves based upon circumstantial evidence and turn them in
in to the government, which would then execute them, various Poskim
conclude that the government is entitled to institute its own criminal
justice jurisprudence contrary to Halachah, with evidentiary rules
laxer than the requirement of two witnesses.  They use the terms
"Dinah De'Malchusa" and "Dinam Din", although they don't invoke the
standard sources of DdMD.

The most notable source for this is a responsum of Rashba, cited by
Beis Yosef (HM end of 388).  Maharam Shik (Responsa HM #50) derives
from the Rashba the permission to turn in a murderess to the government
even when the proof against her is merely circumstantial, although he
is somewhat ambivalent about applying this Halachah Le'Ma'aseh.

There is, however, a recently published responsum of Rav Hai who seems
to take a more restrictive view of the permissibility of cooperating
with the government on the punishment of murderers.

> Zev Sero               Something has gone seriously awry with this Court's

Yitzhak
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