[Avodah] manipulating bodily energies

[Richard Wolpoe]

On Jan 13, 2008 11:18 AM, <T613K at aol.com> wrote:

>
>
>  >>>>>
> Are you seriously trying to claim that davening at Kever Rochel or singing
> Sholom Aleichem is the same as the egel or the A'Z temple of Yeravam?!
>

Sometimes a subtle indisious Avodah Zoro is more dangerous than the obvious
bowing down to a wooden statute!

I find it ironic that some frum someJjews can be so machmir re: e.g. kashrus
and so  easygoing about issues bordering AZ.



> That is quite a stretch.  If the debate here is over normative Judaism, it
> is certainly RRW and not RZS who is taking the radical position.
>

How so?  What is your evidence?


> (The question of davening to the Rebbe /instead of/ davening to Hashem is
> a far more serious problem, and on that point RRW may well be
> correct.)   But saying at a tzaddik's kever "Please be a meilitz yosher for
> us" is /not/ A'Z.
>

See kitzur Shulchan Aruch about asking Meisim to helop out. It is an issur
d'orrasios doreach el hameisim.  Kitzur is VERY careful about visitng
kevarim before RH to make this disclaimer?   Why?  AFAIK less man depalig




> "Kol beramah nishma, Rochel mevaka al baneha" establishes the principle
> that tzaddikim can ask Hashem for rachamim for their children -- even after
> said tzaddikim have left this world.  Asking them, "Go to Father and plead
> for us" is not A'Z.
>

No it is doreish el hameisim, which is probably abizraihu d'AZ and a
yeihareig v'al ya'avor



> Asking the malachim to give you a bracha is likewise not A'Z, any more
> than asking any person for a bracha is A'Z.
>

But would violate 13 Ikkarim of Rambam and according to R. Yehudah Parness
puts you beyond the pale. IOW a prospective Ger would be rejectd for doing
this.



> "Al tehi birchas hedyot kal be'einecha" means ordinary people can bentsh
> other people, and certainly malachim can.
>

Adressing Malachim presupposes they have their own will. See Rambam.
Imagine iof you address a Kings' arm or leg or some inferior body part.  And
BTW, Uriah hachitti was hayyav missa for saying "adoni Avishai" in front of
David.  Addrssing a Mlachi infron of Hashem is tantamount to ignoring HKBH
and talkiing to an infeiror being instead.



> If a person can bentsh another person, what is to say you can't actually
> ask for a bracha?    It is still up to Hashem to fulfill the bracha.
>

If Presdient Bush was in fron of you and you aske Condy Rice to helpIsrael
would that be OK because it is STILL Bush'sdecision? Or would you be
violating protocal?


>
> PS Despite the thread subject, I do not believe in kinesiology, iridology,
> homeopathy et al.  They may not be A'Z but it is a separate mitzva, very
> well known, for a Jew to have seichel.
> **
> *--Toby Katz
> =============*
>
>
>
Bottom line, just because the other kids on the block do it does not make it
OK. Minhaggim are OK and even holy when they enhance Torah. When they
promote AZ I cannot imagine a bigger abuse of Minhag or Moreshes!   Just
because Mitechila ovdeai AZ  hayu avoseinu does not mean we should emulate
THAT morasha!

Avraham Avinu violated Kibbud Av in order to rebel against AZ.  THAT is our
Morasha!

I'm not Melech Yisroel but if they made me king some of the first things I
WOULD do would be:

   1. Abolish all iconography
   2. Abolish all images in shuls except for p'sukkim [iow Shiviss or Da
   lifnei is OK with me]I


-- 
Kol Tuv / Best Regards,
RabbiRichWolpoe at Gmail.com
see: http://nishmablog.blogspot.com/
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