[Avodah] Hot Cheese for Shabbat Lunch

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

R"n Toby Katz wrote:
> However I want to make a different point.  There is an issue
> of kovod Shabbos.  Unless you are a vegetarian and /never/
> eat fleishigs, it shows a lack of kovod Shabbos to eat
> milchigs for Shabbos lunch.

Not to my way of thinking. Kavod is not about ingredients, it is about style. One chooses his/her Shabbos clothing based on how it looks, not on whether it is wool or polyester.

On the other hand, if one is sensitive to the look of wool and the look of polyester, then such a person would legitmately consider one to be more kavodik than the other. So too for food: If one appreciates meat more than cheese, then of course he/she would consider meat more kavodik than cheese.

But ultimately, kavod Shabbos (as I see it) rests much more upon the elaborateness of the meal (which does *not* have to equate to the quantity of the food), than upon the ingredients used. RTK might even admit to this idea, if only grudgingly and only partially:

> /Maybe/  you could get away with something very chashuv --
> salmon and brie? -- but really it should be basar vedagim
> vechol mat'amim.

Sources, please? (Other posters have already pointed out that we don't pasken from zemiros.)

> I say this as a person who prefers milchigs ... But never
> would we have had a milchig meal on Shabbos ... It would
> have been considered distinctly not-Shabbosdig, like
> wearing a T-shirt and denim. We could easily go a whole
> week without eating fleishigs, but Shabbos meals must be
> fleishig.

I have absolutely no problem with a family who decides for themselves that this is the sort of Shabbos that they like to have. But let's not fall into the trap which Adam and Chava fell into, of confusing the actual law and the personal choice. In the case at hand, let's make sure we understand what is the actual law, and what is the personal choice. As far as I know, the Kavod Shabbos does demand that our food and clothing be better than during the week, but there is no objective definition of this -- it all depends on the circumstances. A t-shirt could be very Shabbosdik for a person who normally wears a totally sleeveless undershirt. I see nothing about a piece of boiled chicken which makes it intrinsically more Shabbosdik than some blintzes or (on Yom Tov) a fresh matza brei.

I know a family where they have the exact same food every single shabbos. The same recipe for the soup. The same style of chicken. The same side dishes every week for decades. It's not my style, but it is what *they* like to do, and for *them* it is VERY Shabbosdik. Sort of like a security blanket, perhaps. Once you've been doing something long enough, it feels un-Shabbosdik to change it. Perhaps this is what RTK meant by saying that she prefers dairy, but insists on meat for Shabbos. If an individual wants to define Kavod Shabbos that way for him/herself, that is fine. But don't confuse subjective preferences with objective definitions.

> We were once guests of people who served milchigs for a yom tov
> lunch (not Shavuos) -- much to our surprise.  I would have been
> much too shy to say anything, but my husband asked the hostess
> if she had a piece of cold chicken in the fridge or something
> else fleishig he could eat. Ever since then when we get invited
> out for a meal, my husband always tells me to make sure they're
> serving fleishigs.

The exact opposite happened to us. We went to friends for a three-day yom tov (Shabbos, Sunday, Monday), and were going crazy with the monotony of the same meat over and over. So for lunch on the last day, despite Mr. Host's preference for meat yet again, my wife and Mrs. Host insisted on preparing a very nice dairy meal. And ever since then, she checks with the hostess before we go away for yom tov. (At home, we usually have milchig for the second night of yom tov, except at the seder of course, when we move it to lunch.)

Akiva Miller
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