[Avodah] manipulating bodily energies

[Daniel Israel]

On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:42:29 -0700 Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> 
wrote:
>On Tue, January 15, 2008 7:18 pm, R Zev Sero wrote:
>: How is that different?  It's still HQBH who is mekayem.  All the
>: tzadik does is "gozer"....
>
>That's why I used relative terms. Asking a friend to say tehillim 
>for a sick person is clearly mutar. Praying to a demigod is not. 
At 
>what point does one make the transition to being like a friend and
>permissable to being like a demigod.

That is not a good example.  The friend has bechira.  An malach 
does not, and neither does a niftar.  A "demigod" is either a 
malach that someone is misidentifying or a non-existant entity, but 
in either case it is being treated as if it has a bechira that it 
does not.

(I guess one could argue the latter a little bit, I just heard in a 
shiur that the neshamah of a niftar can come when the niftar 
desires it.  Similarly, in the midrash of Rachel, it would seem 
that the Avos had bechira whether or not to respond to Yirmiahu's 
request to intervene.  Bottom line: I would say that it is clear 
cut that asking intercession of something with independent bechira 
is a problem.  The problem is whether there is another line.)

--
Daniel M. Israel
dmi1 at cornell.edu