[Avodah] [Areivim] Bar and bat mitzvas

[Chana Luntz]

>From Areivim but sent to Avodah because knowing my track record the
moderators will insist this is bounced there.

R' ElphM writes:

> 
> R' AS wrote:
> 
> > It is worth noting that there are sources that disagree with RHM 
> > (culled from the sefer Otzar Hayedios):
> >
> > 1)  R' Shimon Bar Yochai made a "seudah gedolah" on the day 
> that his 
> > son (R' Eliezer became a bar mitzvah.  RSBY's students 
> asked him why 
> > he made such a big seudah and his response was: this is the 
> day that 
> > my son received a (new) neshama kedosha [as it says in the 
> Zohar that 
> > on the day of one's bar mitzvah, he becomes "k'briah chadasha."
> >
> > 2) On the day of one's bar mitzvah, there is a "chovah" to make a 
> > "simchas lev" like the day of one's chasunah (Zohar).
> 
> I don't like to open a can of worms, but what the seifer 
> hazohar calls a chouve isn't necessarily accepted din and 
> minneg for every Jew,

It would seem though that the Magen Avraham brings this in Siman 225
si'if katan 4 in the name of Yalkut Chadash that it is a mitzvah for a
man to make a seudah on the day that his son become bar mitzvah like on
the day that he enters the marriage canopy [K'yom shenichnas  beno
l'chuppah].  While I agree that what the Magen Avraham writes is not
necessarily minhag for every Jew, but he certainly carries a fair bit of
weight.  I am not sure one can dismiss what is done by those who appear
to be following the Magen Avraham as just an excuse for a party.

I would note in the interests of fair disclosure, that I did not find
this source myself, but it comes from a teshuva by Rav YH Henkin in Bnei
Banim (vol 2 siman 17) in which he discusses the question as to whether
or not a seudas bar mitzvah is a seudas mitzvah.

RYHH brings two sources from nigla (as opposed to the zohar) on which
the idea that it is a seudas mitzvah could be based.  The first is the
midrash in Breishis Raba that the feast that Avraham made for Yitzchak
was when he was 13, and the reference to weaning is a reference to being
weaned from the Yetzer Hara.  The second is from Kiddushin 31a where
reference is made to Rav Yosef who made a seudah when he heard the
halacha was not like Rabbi Yehuda (ie that a blind person is in fact
chayav in mitzvos) because he had heard in the name of Rav Chanina that
gadol hamitzave v'oseh - ie he made a seudah on discovering he was in
fact chayav in mitzvos.

RYHH notes several nafka minas between the two, and notes that both of
them really seem geared to having the seudah bo b'yom and brings various
sources to support this.


> ELPhM

And RHM writes: 

> Let me clarify a bit. There are some circumstances where I 
> might agree that a non Shabbos affair might be acceptable. 
> But I think it should be the exception rather than the rule.
> 

Well as RYHH writes there in Bnei Banim, there seem to be much stronger
justifications for calling it a seudas mitzvah if it is on the day of
the bar mitzvah itself, rather than shabbas or any other day (unless
shabbas is the actual day of the bar mitzvah). 

> It is kind of like the Bar Mitzvah Drasha 
> given by a BM boy. That too is optional even though it is 
> pretty standard fare at a BM.  As far as I am concerened if I 
> never hear another BM Drasha again, it will be too soon. :)

 Well again RYYH brings significant sources that would seem to disagree
with you.  He brings the Magen Avraham again (siman 225) who brings from
the Yam Shel Shlomo in Baba Kama that if the boy gives a drasha then it
is a seudas mitzvah even if it is not bo b'yom - interestingly, the
source for this Yam Shel Shlomo would seem to be that it should be no
less than a seudas chanukas habayis - where apparently the ikkar of the
mitzvah is to initiate the house with torah and mitzvos  (ie starting
off on the right footing).  There appear to be a number of poskim and
shutim that discuss the question further, see there.  

Of course, if you are going to rely on the drasha as being the reason
legitimising the seudah as a seudas mitzva, then it had better be good -
and R'YHH makes the point that if the party is in fact an excuse for
ka'alos rosh, rather than an antidote to it, then it worse that defeats
its purpose..

BTW while RYYH does not mention a Bas Mitzvah at all, none of the
reasons given, except perhaps learning to give a drasha b'rabbim, would
seem inapplicable to a woman.

Regards

Chana