[Mesorah] a kleinigkeit

[Simon Montagu]

Here is MM's own explanation of their punctuation rules.
http://mechon-mamre.org/i/aboutpsq.htm (Personally I am more confused after
reading it than I was before)


On Tue, Jan 30, 2018 at 5:07 AM, Michael Poppers via Mesorah <
mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> >  Mechón Mamet uses a technical rule: every mafsiq on trop gets at least
> a comma. Regardless of whether it makes any sense <
> "every"?  In that *pasuq*, did MM list a comma after "l'qachtanu" (
> *tipcha*)?  No <http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/t/t0214.htm>.
>
> On Mon, Jan 29, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah <
> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>
>> Mechón Mamet uses a technical rule: every mafsiq on trop gets at least a
>> comma. Regardless of whether it makes any sense.
>>
>>
>> Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>>
>> On January 28, 2018 at 11:28:58 AM CST, Akiva Miller via Mesorah <
>> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>>
>> In the thread "a kleinigkeit", Rabbi Mandel posted a pasuk which is an
>> excellent illustration of a question I've wondered about. He posted it
>> as:
>>
>> יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַיִם
>> לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ
>> לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ מִמִּצְרָvayomru el Moshe" is zarka-segol. Why would
>> anyone put a comma for zarka? Does the zarka function as a mafsik
>> here? "Vayomru el Moshe" is a phrase, a unit in which a comma is
>> totally inappropriate. What am I missing?
>>
>> Akiva Miller
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah
>> <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>> > I call it that because most people only care about masorah if it
>> changes the
>> > meaning or the pronunciation.
>> >
>> > But the non-defenestrated denizens of the Mesorah group understand that
>> the
>> > masorah is much deeper than such things, and is important in light of
>> the
>> > number of rishonim who spent time on it.
>> >
>> > So I am mentioning something that I shamefully admit that I was unaware
>> of
>> > all my years:
>> >
>> > In the pasuq:
>> >
>> > יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַ
>> לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ
>> > מִמִּצְרָ
>>
>> > regarding the word "hamibb'li," all printed Chumashim have the
>> punctuation
>> > as is above, with a hataph-patah under the he'.
>> >
>> > However, that is not the puncuation in the kisvei yad that represent the
>> > Ben-Asher masorah. Rather, all of them, without exception have a full
>> patah
>> > — WITH a ge‘aya/AKA meteg. As the meritorious members of this group are
>> > aware, that means that the syllable "ha" is lengthened and has a
>> secondary
>> > stress.
>> >
>> > The Minchas Shai already noticed this issue. He notes that R. Yonah had
>> it
>> > with a full patah, and it is the R'DaQ who says it should be a
>> hataph-patah
>> > based on S'faradi mss. He even goes on to say that there are some who
>> claim
>> > that the ms. on which R.Yonah was basing himself was the Aleppo Codex.
>> That
>> > means to me that the Minchas Shay, without being able to decide the
>> matter,
>> > attaches serious weight to the view of R. Yonah.
>> >
>> > In any event, now we can be certain based on the better mss. that we
>> have.
>> >
>> > Prescriptive grammarians, who hold that the he' hash'elah should always
>> have
>> > a hataph-patah, of course will be disturbed. But as we know, the Masorah
>> > did not believe in prescriptive grammar, only in descriptive.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
>> > Rabbinic Coordinator
>> > The Orthodox Union
>> >
>> > Voice (212) 613-8330 Fax (212) 613-0718 e-mail mandels at ou.org
>> >
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>> >
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