[Mesorah] a kleinigkeit

[Michael Poppers]

> The trop for the words "vayomru el Moshe" is zarka-segol. Why would
anyone put a comma for zarka? Does the zarka function as a mafsik
here? "Vayomru el Moshe" is a phrase, a unit in which a comma is
totally inappropriate. What am I missing? <
RAM, I think you're not missing anything.  Generally speaking, I wouldn't
place a comma after a zarqa prior to a segol any more than I would place a
comma by a tipcha prior to an esnachta or by a pashta prior to a zaqeif.

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 12:28 PM, Akiva Miller via Mesorah <
mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:

> In the thread "a kleinigkeit", Rabbi Mandel posted a pasuk which is an
> excellent illustration of a question I've wondered about. He posted it
> as:
>
> יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַיִם
> לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ
> לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ מִמִּצְרָיִם
>
> This pasuk (Sh'mos 14:11), as he posted it and also as it appears at
> http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/t/t0214.htm, has a comma after the very
> first word. I often copy pesukim from Mechon Mamre, because it is
> convenient and I rarely (if ever) have a problem with the actual
> spelling. But I am *frequently* surprised by the punctuation, and this
> is a great example.
>
> The trop for the words "vayomru el Moshe" is zarka-segol. Why would
> anyone put a comma for zarka? Does the zarka function as a mafsik
> here? "Vayomru el Moshe" is a phrase, a unit in which a comma is
> totally inappropriate. What am I missing?
>
> Akiva Miller
>
> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 11:11 AM, Mandel, Seth via Mesorah
> <mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
> > I call it that because most people only care about masorah if it changes
> the
> > meaning or the pronunciation.
> >
> > But the non-defenestrated denizens of the Mesorah group understand that
> the
> > masorah is much deeper than such things, and is important in light of the
> > number of rishonim who spent time on it.
> >
> > So I am mentioning something that I shamefully admit that I was unaware
> of
> > all my years:
> >
> > In the pasuq:
> >
> > יד:יא וַיֹּאמְרוּ, אֶל-מֹשֶׁה הֲמִבְּלִי אֵיןקְבָרִים בְּמִצְרַיִם
> > לְקַחְתָּנוּ לָמוּת בַּמִּדְבָּר, מַה-זֹּאת עָשִׂיתָ לָּנוּ לְהוֹצִיאָנוּ
> > מִמִּצְרָיִם.
> >
> > regarding the word "hamibb'li," all printed Chumashim have the
> punctuation
> > as is above, with a hataph-patah under the he'.
> >
> > However, that is not the puncuation in the kisvei yad that represent the
> > Ben-Asher masorah.  Rather, all of them, without exception have a full
> patah
> > — WITH a ge‘aya/AKA meteg.  As the meritorious members of this group are
> > aware, that means that the syllable "ha" is lengthened and has a
> secondary
> > stress.
> >
> > The Minchas Shai already noticed this issue.  He notes that R. Yonah had
> it
> > with a full patah, and it is the R'DaQ who says it should be a
> hataph-patah
> > based on S'faradi mss.  He even goes on to say that there are some who
> claim
> > that the ms. on which R.Yonah was basing himself was the Aleppo Codex.
> That
> > means to me that the Minchas Shay, without being able to decide the
> matter,
> > attaches serious weight to the view of R. Yonah.
> >
> > In any event, now we can be certain based on the better mss. that we
> have.
> >
> > Prescriptive grammarians, who hold that the he' hash'elah should always
> have
> > a hataph-patah, of course will be disturbed.  But as we know, the Masorah
> > did not believe in prescriptive grammar, only in descriptive.
> >
> >
> >
> > Rabbi Dr. Seth Mandel
> > Rabbinic Coordinator
> > The Orthodox Union
> >
> > Voice (212) 613-8330     Fax (212) 613-0718     e-mail mandels at ou.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > http://lists.aishdas.org/listinfo.cgi/mesorah-aishdas.org
> >
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