[Mesorah] The Influence of Minhag E"Y

[Nehemiah Klein via Mesorah]

Those who follow minhag hagr"a (a large portion of Nusach Ashkenaz in Eretz
Yisrael) *do not * say "sheoscha levadcha beyira naavod", rather reverse
the last two lines of ves-erav: i.e. vesham naavadcha ... vesecheszena
einienu and then the usual chasima hamachazir shchinaso leZion.  I believe
the Gr"a held that sheoscha levadcha is only in the Beis Hamikdash.

On Thu, Apr 14, 2016 at 5:12 AM, Michael Poppers <michaelpoppers at gmail.com>
wrote:

> RNK replied:
> > There are many things where EY is influenced by chutz la'aretz.
> > 1) "vese-erav" before Birkas Kohanim is only said in musaf on Yom Tov,
> clearly it is because in chutz la'aretz they only do Birkas Kohanim on Yom
> Tov even though in Eretz Yisrael this should be said every day. <
> I find irony in RNK's thought, since AFAIK "*she'os'cha l'vad'cha
> b'yir'ah na'avod*" is the *chasimah* of *nusach EY*.  FWIW, in *minhag
> FFdM* (i.e. Ashk'naz) on YT, *duchening* is done also in Shacharis...but "
> *v'se'erav*" is only said at Musaf; hence, I would not be so quick to
> conclude that "*v'se'erav*" should be said "every day" (i.e. whenever
> *duchening* occurs).
>
> Best wishes for a Chag Pesach Kasher v'Sameach from *Michael*
>
> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 3:36 PM, Nehemiah Klein via Mesorah <
> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>
>> There are many things where EY is influenced by chutz la'aretz.
>>
>> 1) "vese-erav" before Birkas Kohanim is only said in musaf on Yom Tov,
>> clearly it is because in chutz la'aretz they only do Birkas Kohanim on Yom
>> Tov even though in Eretz Yisrael this should be said every day.
>>
>> 2) Ditto for the singing to allow the people to say the tefillos for the
>> dreams, that too should really be done every day here.
>>
>> 3) see Machtzis Hashekel regarding Hoshanos - "e-eroch shui" should be
>> the first day of Chol Hamoed, The same chart is used in Eretz Yisrael even
>> though that means "e-roch shui" is being said on the third day of Sukkos
>> which in Eretz Yisrael is the second day of Chol Hamoed, it really should
>> be said the day before on the second day of Sukkos.
>>
>> 4) although "av harachamim" is said during sefirah even on Shabbos
>> mevorchim, in Eretz Yisrael where what is the "eighth day of Pesach" in
>> chutz la'aretz is an ordinary Shabbos Av Harachamim is not said -
>> presumably because in chutz la'aretz it is Yom Tov.
>>
>> 5) Yizkor, I believe was instituted on the eighth day of Pesach, second
>> day of Shavuos, and Shmini Atzeres because "ish kematnas yado" is read, in
>> Eretz Yisrael the kriyah of "kol habechor" is never read yet Yizkor was
>> added on the last days of the three regalim.
>>
>> There are more examples which I cannot think of right now, if I think of
>> them I will IY"H post them.
>>
>>
>> By the way the "minhagei Eretz Yisrael" as far as I can see are largely
>> taken from Nusach Sefard and only a few from the Gr"a.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 13, 2016 at 10:13 PM, Richard Wolpoe via Mesorah <
>> mesorah at lists.aishdas.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> It seems there is a tremendous influence imposed by Minhag E"Y on local
>>> minhog here
>>>
>>> EG
>>> When I was a boy, virtually all minyan men in  mainline nusach Ashkenaz
>>> Shuls wore Tefillin ‎duringChol HaMoed
>>>
>>> The Ben-Yehudah Mivta was odd. I remember when we first heard a
>>> Professor from Israel using Modern Israeli pronunciation in shul over
>>> stanadrad Ashkenaz‎I and we thought it was hilarious. Now it is uniquitous.
>>>
>>> Many Ashkenaz Shuls have abandoned Baruch Hashem L'olam at Ma'ariv
>>>
>>> Of course some of these may be attributed to the Influence of the GRA
>>> and to the Rav A"H. But it seems that the E"Y influence is even more
>>> common. EG an Israeli who davens "nusach sefarad" skips Baruch Hashem
>>> L'olam. I don't believe this is due to the influence of Nusach Arizal, nor
>>> to the influence of the GRA. It appears to me that the most powerful common
>>> denominator is that Minhag E"Y has spread to American and changed nusach
>>> and minhog quite extensively within the last 50 years.
>>>
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>>>
>>
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