[Mesorah] She'ata / Sha'ata

[Mandel, Seth]

With tal things are not that simple.  True, in Biblical Hebrew the non-pausal form is tal, with a pasach.  But not necessarily in L'shon Hazal.
I can hear this remark clinking as it goes down the electronic highway, because is it mostly a poor ha'penny meant to elicit a response from R. David.  For I miss him as well.

Rabbi Seth Mandel

________________________________________
From: mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org [mesorah-bounces at lists.aishdas.org] on behalf of R. Rich Wolpoe [rabbirichwolpoe at gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 4:34 PM
To: HayyimObadyah at aol.com; mesorah at aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] She'ata / Sha'ata

Dear R Hayyim Obbadyah

I do not follow your post

We are discussing the pausal form at the end of a phrase

EG in ashkenaz

Oved instead of Eved
Gover instead of Gever

The question is does Geshem become the pausal form Goshem at the end of the phrase?

EG The Pausal form "Tol" appears in "Morid Hattol" in many eidot mizrach siddurim as well as in many ashkenazic siddurim

Some siddurim hare rolled this back to Hattal.  EG Hoffmeister

Summary

There are 3 separate issues

1. Do pausal forms belong in davening at all?

2. Is Goshem a legitimate pausal form of Geshem

3. Does the break before m"chalkeil Hayyim merit a pausal form at all?


#1  I claim yes because I can produce many examples across minhaggim.  That does not mean that Hanau et. Al. Did not add any new ones. Maybe they did.



#2 if R Seth Mandel is correct, no such form Goshem exists. Otherwise it remains ambiguous

#3. If you have komatz under Hattol, then it is a legitimate pausal break. If you have a patach then it's not


Shalom and Regards, RRW
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