[Mesorah] karva shenas hasheva

[Gershon Dubin]

Can you give me the English equivalents?

Gershon
gershon.dubin at juno.com

---------- Original Message ----------
From: Mike Stein <mike at math.northwestern.edu>
To: Gershon Dubin <gershon.dubin at juno.com>
Cc: bkandel at yu.edu, mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
Subject: Re: [Mesorah] karva shenas hasheva
Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 09:20:37 -0500

kamatz gadol: ordinary "past" tense
kamatz katan: extended or long (I forget the technical term)
imperative.  We have an example of this in l'cha dodi.

Mike Stein

On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 02:10:40PM +0000, Gershon Dubin wrote:
> If it were a kamatz gadol what would the word and phrase mean?  Just changing the part of speech doesn't necessary change the meaning of the phrase.  The person who told me this also said that it's a different shoresh, but that sounded totally out of bounds.
> 
> Gershon
> gershon.dubin at juno.com
> 
> ---------- Original Message ----------
> From: "Benjamin M. Kandel" <bkandel at yu.edu>
> To: mesorah at lists.aishdas.org
> Subject: Re: [Mesorah] karva shenas hasheva
> Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:04:00 -0400
> 
> Sort of.  According to the Radak's rules of shva, a shva after a kametz
> gadol is a shva na, and after a kametz katan is a shva nach.  If this is
> true, then it would follow that putting a shva na under "karva" would
> imply that the first kametz is gadol (and that the word is a regular
> verb), whereas putting a shva nach there would imply that the word is
> "korva", which would presumably be a noun.
> 
> In any case, it is pretty clear that within the system of the baalei
> mesorah from Teveriah, there is no shva na after a tenua "gedola".  Ibn
> Ezra says so explicitly in Tzachos (I can get the exact reference if
> you're interested), and so does Ben Asher himself (in Dikdukei HaTeamim). 
> The rule of having a shva na after a tenua gedola was first mentioned by
> Radak and adopted by many later grammarians, but earlier ba'alei dikduk
> don't mention it.
> 
> Kol tuv
> 
> Ben Kandel
> 
> > Someone told me that saying a sheva nach in the first word of the above
> > phrase changes the meaning.  Can someone affirm+explain/refute?  Thanks.
> >
> > Gershon
> > gershon.dubin at juno.com
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> 
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-- 
Michael R. Stein     mike at math.northwestern.edu
Mathematics Department, Northwestern U, Evanston, IL 60208-2730
voice: +1 847-491-5524    fax:+1 847-491-8906

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