[Mesorah] Chataf Patach

[D&E-H Bannett]

Re:  <<I'm not sure if RDB answered RGD's Q (whether the
pronunciation of a chataf depends on a machloqes between ben
Asheir and ben Naftali)>>

True, I didn't say if there is a b-A b-N machIoket and the
truth is that I don't remember it as such.  As far as I
know, there is no machloket at all.  There are differences
of opinion on the need for noting a chataf for sh'vaim
na'im. As ben Asher puts it, "v'ein ladavar shoresh ki im
birtzon hasof'rim".

As to the Minhat Shai's very common comment "sh'va l'vad".
Many years ago I wondered if his opposition to these
"optional" chatafim meant simply that his accurate sources
did not have the custom of writing them and so, following
tradition, he didn't.  Some years later, when I saw his
introduction which did not appear in the Minchat Shai of my
mikraot gedolot. I realized that he was backing ben Asher
and the other kadmonim who, before R' Yosef Kimchi,
considered these sh'vaim to be nachim.

And re: the nikkud of Mach'lat bat Yishmael: <<patach for
mem, chataf[-patach] for ches vs. qamatz-qaton for mem,
chataf [-qamatz] for ches)>>

  Minchat Shai quotes Ohr Torah that all accurate sources
have a kamatz in the mem and a chataf in the chet. BTW, this
horrified RVH who found just the opposite.   But the name
Mach'lat is one on which Leningrad and other mss agree
and that Sapir had checked in the Keter. It has a kamatz in
the mem and a chataf patach (not kamatz) in the chet. And
why would you think that the kamatz is katan?  The chet has
a sh'va na which shows that the mem has a kamatz gadol.
(BTW, same nikkud in yahalom).  That's the reason for the
chataf, so one shouldn't make the sh'va into a nach and the
kamatz, therefore, katan.  On this too, I don't have any
recollection of a b-A vs. b-N machloket.  If Breuer or
Yeivin had mentioned such, I'm pretty sure I would remember.
I don't have access to a list of these machlokot and my
memory is not what it used to be so.... maybe....

Breuer and Cohen Keter texts both have this "correct"
nikkud.   Most "accurate" Tanakhim printed in the last two
hundred years or so have the mem with patach.

And now I can go to sleep.

David