[Mesorah] At/Atah

[R Davidovich]

For the purpose of this discussion, I'll grant that "Loshon Kodesh" is
Hebrew.  But there is today's Hebrew and there is the Hebrew of thousands of
years ago. They are not the same.  I think that as nations were being
created, there were probably faster mutations in languages than what we see
today.  Whatever one's view of Slifkin, Darwin etc. it is clear and provable
and documented that languages do evolve and have evolved.  Even Hebrew
lettering has evolved. There is even a gemara in Sanhedrin - Perek Cheilek,
that makes this point explicitly.  True, rishonim cited in the Artscroll
footnotes try to squeeze their way out, but history is pretty clear on that
point, and in full agreement with that gemara: There was a Ksav Ivri and
Ksav Ashuri etc.  Despite the attempts at Esperanto, nobody "makes" a
language.

Then there is the Loshon Kodesh of Brias Haolam and even Adam Harishon.
That is pre-historical in the literal sense:  It predates History.  You
contend that Hebrew is the exception to the rule of because Chazal state
that Adam spoke it.  Any statement about Loshon Kodesh at that pre-real time
time follows a rule similar to the rule that we don't learn Halacha from
Aggadeta.  Adam spoke something we will call Loshon Kodesh.  The degree to
which his language resembled the language Moshe Rabbeinu spoke is unclear
and halachically irrelevant.



On Tue, Aug 26, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Michael Hamm <msh210 at math.wustl.edu>wrote:

> On Monday, 25 Aug 2008, R' Raphael Davidovich wrote, in part,
> about Rashi to B'reshis 2:23:
>
>> I thought the Chazal was about Adam Harishon, which could
>> conceivably lead a person to conclude that Hebrew is the
>> literal first language, which led to my counter-argument
>> that this is no reason to think that it must also be the
>> origin of all post-Mabul languages.
>>
>> However, Chazal say even less than that.  The claim, which
>> is pure Medrash that has no practical human language
>> conclusion, is that Hashem created the world with Hebrew.
>> That has NOTHING to do with the development of languages in
>> the history of Olam Hazeh.  It is entirely plausible to
>> suggest that while from a aggedeta point of view, Hebrew was
>> the "language" that made Creation, Hebrew as a human language
>> evolved and developed in a manner similar to all other
>> languages.
>>
>
> The context of the Rashi (the pasuk) implies that Adam spoke the language
> in question.  Even if we ignore Rashi, each of the following statements
> seems either reasonable or Jewish to me:
>  1.  One person was created first, and was able to speak
>      intelligently as soon as he was created, or soon after.
>  2.  That person spoke only one language on a regular basis
>      at the time he was first able to speak.
>  3.  That language thus did not descend from any other.
> Am I to understand that you, R'RD, wish to argue that that language was
> something other than Hebrew (l'shon kodesh), despite the Rashi alluded to
> above, and that Rashi was referring only to the creation of the world and
> not the language Adam spoke, despite the context of the Rashi?  Or that that
> language Adam spoke was other than Hebrew, despite the context of the Rashi,
> and that Rashi, and the midrash he's quoting, decided to lie, and say it was
> Hebrew even though it was actually Proto-Whatever, just for the sake of
> d'rash?  Either one seems to me, if you'll excuse me, far-fetched. And if
> Adam spoke a different language, what sort of language was it, and why did
> he speak it?  I mean this from a Jewish point of view.  That is, if the
> world was created with Hebrew, or, at least, if the Torah is in it, then why
> would Hashem create the first person speaking Proto-Whatever, or how did he
> develop it?  It all seems to me so unreasonable.
>
> R'RD also refers to Hebrew's not being the "origin of all post-Mabul
> languages".  I agree.  But it did predate them, as far as I can currently
> understand, which is a separate issue.
>
> I am willing to be convinced otherwise.
>
>
> Michael Hamm
> AM, Math, Wash. U. St. Louis
> msh210 at math.wustl.edu                Fine print:
> http://www.math.wustl.edu/~msh210/ <http://www.math.wustl.edu/%7Emsh210/>... legal.html
>



-- 
RD
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