[Avodah] bli neder

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jun 10, 2025 at 09:58:51PM +0300, Simon Montagu via Avodah wrote:
> > question? Because the word is Greek, "stollus". The yud-sav suffix isn't
> > the Hebrew feminine one. If we act like it is anyway, the word would be
> > "talliyos", otherwise, "tallisos".
> 
> I don't accept your assertion that the suffix is not the Hebrew feminine
> one, and still less your Greek etymology. The word seems like a common
> formation from the root t-l-l meaning to cover, the Aramaic cognate of the
> Hebrew ts-l-l.

I wasn't suggesting an etymology for the name a Jewish garment, I was
repeating the idea (which R S Mandel first exposed me to) that the tallis
actually is a Greek stollus, with the sole Jewish element is the addition
of tzitzis.

A stollus, from which we get one of the English words "stole" (as in a
"mink stole"), was a rectangular garment that was one of those in style
during Malkhus Yavan. Even the stripes we still have today (although
Sepharadim have white-on-white ones) were part of the style of that day.

>> Similarly, "Sheirut" is indeed a feminine noun, even though the vav-tav
>> is not related to that fact. Probably because service is a "receive
>> and further develop" type thing. (Blame either the biology of reproduction
>> or historical gender roles. Just please don't blame me.)

> What is your evidence that Sherut is feminine? Ben Yehuda and Even Shoshan
> both say it is masculine, but I only see one quotation in Ben Yehuda which
> shows gender:  Yoma 58a "shene khelim besherut ehad"

Actually, I could cite that very source, since the text actually has
"achas".
https://www.sefaria.org/Yoma.58a.8

But I just wrote that after glancing at an on-line dictionary. I didn't
have a primary source.

(Actually, it's neither in Tanakh nor Mishnah, so we don't have a source
old enough to rule out the likelihood of Aramaic borrowings. I don't
know if Aramaic ever has a different gender for a word than Hebrew did.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 The day you were born is the day G-d decided
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   that the world could not exist without you.
Author: Widen Your Tent                  - Rav Nachman of Breslov
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF