[Avodah] Learning?

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Apr 23, 2025 at 11:12:46AM +0300, Joel Rich via Avodah wrote:
> Comment to blog discussing a girl’s elementary school’s gemara celebration

And then no one in digest mode could follow his question because the
digest mangles Hebrew.

> two thoughts If it's not a mitzvah for women to learn gemara, why wouldn't
> we say

AZ 19a:
    A"R: Ein adam lomeid Torah ela mimaqom shelibo chafeitz
    shene'emar: him im beToras H' Cheftzo

> and why (for boys as well) don't we follow

Avos 5:21 [quoting R Yehudah b Teima]:
    Hu hayah omeir: Ben 5 lemiqra, ben 10 leMishnah, ben 13 leMitzvos,
    ben  15 leTalmud

> Thoughts?

As for the first question... We standardized education. If you're doing
it wholesale rather than retail, you cannot customize the syllabus to
what each student chafeitz / cheftzah.

So the question is how well Montessouri style education or some other
modern system that allows students more autonomy of choice works for
higher-level subjects. And does thew community have the resources?

The other problem is that chanokh lenaar al pi darko tells us to educate
the child based on what's best for that individual chid's long term
observance and Yir'as Hashem. Still requiring individualilzed education
to be fully implemented. But, it is possible that what's best for the
child's Yahadus longterm is not always what that cihld is most interested
in learning.

Along similar lines to your question is someone one of the Avodah chevrah,
someone in chinukh, once quipped:
    I don't understand this rush to give HS girls the same curriculum
    we give the boys. It's not like we are getting stellar results
    from this curriculum with the boys!

As for the second question... I think RYbT's advice is generally taken
as society-sensitive. For example, you didn't quote of ask about getting
married at 18, entering the work force at 20...

Detour: What? You're supposed to get married 2 years before having a job?
At least, that's getting a job is how the Barternua (and Sefaria's
English) take "ben 20 lirdof"...
So I guess the whole nest-egg thing was a mistake?

The only things in that mishnah we do do are those out of our control, like
bar mitzvah or when one is at peek strength, wisdom, etc...

Actually, given pre-1A, many schools do start miqra at 5. And maybe
we start mishnah around 10. Certainly when our boys are far less
developmentally along as a 10 year old boy living in 2nd cent CE
Israel. (Some girsa'os have RYbT as one of the 10 Harugei Malkhus,
so he was a contemporary of R Aqiva and Bar Kokhva.)

And then, if boys are excited by the concept of learning gemara, we are
simply following Rebbe (in the quote in the first question) over RYbT.

Chodesh Tov!
Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 Today is the 15th day, which is
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   2 weeks and 1 day in/toward the omer.
Author: Widen Your Tent      Chesed sheb'Tifferes: What is the Chesed in
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF                          harmony?