[Avodah] Binfol oyvecha

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Jul 12, 2024 at 06:19:41PM -0400, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
> About 15-20 years ago, we had several discussions about the minhag of
> removing wine from our cups at the Seder. To find those discussions - which
> spanned several different volumes of Avodah, and under several different
> Subject lines, please go to the alphabetical index at
> https://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=B and look for
> the word "binfol".

To add a little nuance... Our discussions were less about what the origin of the
minhag was and more about the Jewishness of the idea.

IOW, the claim was made that this new explanation came from the non-O mocements,
amd really such compassion for our enemies reflects a Christian ethic that is
at odds with the Torah.

I didn't really care that much if we did repurpose the minhag in the 20th century
as deal with the inderlying odea - this new wxplanation is indeed a Jewish ethical
stance. Whether it really motivated the minhag or not.

And we have enoug sources making the same claim about binfol oyivkha even about
nakhri nations that attack us. We even have the new explanation about binfol
offered in thr name of some more recent gedolim.

I ended up collectimg the results for that side of the argument at
http://aspaqlaria.aishdas.org/2014/01/08/compassion-for-our-enemies/

...
> At the time, I understood that the reason for removing the wine is based on
> the pasuk "binfol oyvekha al tismach"...
> Some of the chevrah had a different view, though, and they claimed that we
> do NOT have to lessen our joy; that pasuk only refers to *Jewish* enemies.
> I did not find those arguments convincing.

Or, as I wpuld suggest, we *do* have to lessen our joy. Even the Beis
Yoseif applies this to Chatzi Hallel for the end of Pesach! However,
this was not the original motive of the minhag of reducing the cup of
wine for each makkah (and each of R Yehudah's simanim).

> I want to thank R' Joel Rich for his Audio Roundup 2024:22, in which he
...
> (In addition, I must thank RJR in general, for *all* his Audio Roundups. It
> is a great selection of shiurim, and I have listened to many of them when I
> commute to work. It turns a nerve-wracking drive to a mitzva-filled one.)

Hear hear!

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger                 What you get by achieving your goals
http://www.aishdas.org/asp   is not as important as
Author: Widen Your Tent      what you become by achieving your goals.
- https://amzn.to/2JRxnDF            - Henry David Thoreau