[Avodah] Ashkenazic Pronounciation

[Meir Shinnar]

This discussion is problematic

To summarize points of agreement and contention:

1) Classic Ashkenaz (at least of last several hundred years) is different from modern Israeli Hebrew (abazit -rashe tevot  ivrit bat zmanenu)
Agreed

2) rabbanim may, in their own communities, insist on certain pronounciations just as they can insist on a certain nusach and minhage tefilla and kriat hatorah - agreed

3) Abazit has fewer distinctions between consonants and vowels than other standard versions of Hebrew (eg, all differentt ashkenazi flavors, all different sefardi /mughrab flavors, and teimani) - agreed

4) RAYKook only permitted Havarah Yisraelit when the alternative was inconsistency. 
Agreed.   However, interpretation and relevance of that for today is unclear.  Remember, he did permit it….

Next, points of contention:

1) Motivation for abazit by Eliezer ben yehudah was that
"They felt that the Ashkenazic pronunciation was tied to European Judaism and religious tradition, which they, for the most part, were rejecting”
While Eliezer ben Yehudah was no fan of religious tradition, I would like to see better documentation of this claim - not just by people who hated Eliezer ben Yehuda and the zionists.  I think a far more plausible claim is that if Hebrew was to become the lingua franca in Israel - which it had not been in Europe or anywhere else, people had to have a common accent.  As you and rSM noted, Russian and Polish jewry developed a common Hebrew - based on the work of the yiddishists.  In Israel, not only Russian and Polish Jews needed to speak to each other - but everyone - including sefardim, teimanim, and all sorts of ashkenazim - and abazit allowed it to happen, and this is a far more plausible claim. One can argue that different choices could have been made - but choosing options with the least difference makes a great deal of sense for this aim.

2) Motivation matters.  
Again, I would like to see better evidence of motivation than brought.  But, even assuming one finds good evidence for that - why does it matter now? You are treating this like hukkat ha’akum.  You have to bring good evidence why motive matters for minhag (except for real avodah Zara)  once it has been accepted by major communities.  We don’t in other matters.  The yeshivish community adopted  Pronunciation developed by the secular Yiddishists - but that was OK because they are the yeshiva community.  The RZ community adopted abazit - (and I think a major part of the motivation was exactly what I stated - for uniformity and intelligibility across populations) - but that is not OK????

3) Rav Kook.  Rav Kook was dealing with abazit in its infancy, with few native speakers- most of his audience came fromEuroope with a different  Hebrew, and speaking abazit was different.  However, as you say, he did permit it when the alternative was inconsistency - eg, when that was the native, natural Hebrew of the speaker.  This means that he did not see a real Halachic issue with it.  Today, in Israel, most Israelis would have a tough time learning to distinguish patach from kamatz.

4)  Common practice.  I have been in many RZ shuls in Israel, and rarely heard an Ashkenazi pronunciation (sefardi yes, teimani yes, but ashkenazi in RZ - rarely heard, and primarily from old timers and visitors.  

5) Halachic norm.  Claim is made that there is today a halachic issue in people using abazit in davening (not in using it in a Shul that insists on ashkenozis, but just davening by themselves or in a Shul using it).  Let me ask people who went to an Israeli hesder yeshiva.  For example Gush - Rav Aharon Lichtenstein zt”l and Rav Amital zt”l grew up speaking different flavors of Ashkenozis.  Did they insist that the ba’ale tefilla and ba’ale kris distinguish between patach and kamatz? Even for Shem adnut, did they require it???what about other header yeshiva (or even merkaz - I have heard Merkaz trained rabbanim daven in abazit, and Merkaz Harav does follow rav kook…).  Rav Kook’s tshuva was never meant to apply to a case where the community adopted this pronunciation

6) If a person who grandparents were ashkenazi says Shem adnut with a patach, his grandparents would misunderstand it.  SO???? He is not davening to his grandparents.  If he were to switch to a Havana sefaradit - same issue - but that is ok, but not abazit. ???  Again, a Shul or community may want the pronunciation in the Shul to follow its nusach - but for the individual or for a different community this is a problem??????

Unfortunately, what seems to be the underlying motivation here is pure, unadulterated sinai Hinam.  There is refusal to allow recognition to all the Dati RZ Jews, communities and rabbanim as representing an autherntic kehilla and minhag, and being mozis la’az on entire communities as not being truly halachic.  Especially during Sefira and before Shavuot, where we accepted the torah as one, we need to condemn this

Meir Shinnar
(Who does try to distinguish much more.in pronounciation,…)
  


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