[Avodah] Paying your workers on time using electronic payments
marty.bluke at mail.gmail.com
Mon Jun 24 22:07:31 PDT 2019
[Email #1, sent on Tue, 25 Jun 2019 at 7:19am IDT. -micha]
On Tuesday, June 25, 2019, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
> The difference between RMB and my positions would be whether it's possible
> to avoid the lavin and yet not fulfill the asei.
> RMBluke is saying yes -- if you pay him when expected, but the expectation
> isn't same-day. And thus he asks about a credit card payment that doesn't
> clear immediately. ("T+0" -- time + 0 days -- is how we say it in the
> trading industry.)
> I worked with the idea that beyomo is just an idiom for bizmano, and so
> the asei and the lav are both about paying him when you agreed. So, if
> he offers a credit card option and you use it, you would fulfil the asei.
R' Nissim Karelitz writes in Chut Shani that if the worker agrees to
defer payment or collect from a chenvani you are not over bal talin but
you are not mekayem the mitzva either as I suggested.
I saw that there is a machlokes of modern day poskim about post dated
checks whether you are mekayem the mitzva. The machlokes revolves around
whether does the agreement of the worker Relate to the mitzva as well. See
section about post dated checks. R' Elyashiv seems to be holding like
[Email #2, sent at 8:07am. -micha]
On Tue, Jun 25, 2019 at 7:19 AM Marty Bluke <marty.bluke at gmail.com> wrote:
> I saw that there is a machlokes of modern day poskim about post dated
> checks whether you are mekayem the mitzva. The machlokes revolves around
> whether does the agreement of the worker Relate to the mitzva as well. See
> http://www.ladaat.info/Gilionot/20190504/חוקי_חיים_קדושים.pdf the
> section about post dated checks. R' Elyashiv seems to be holding like R'
After thinking about it and seeing R' Shternbuch (3:470 Teshuvos VHanagos)
I think they are saying something else. They also understand the mitzva of
Byomo literally that it has to be that day. However, they claim that the
special din by workers that you have to pay cash can be waived by the
worker. And therefore, if you pay with shaveh kesef ON THAT DAY you are
also yotze the mitzva. Based on that, they say that a post dated check is
considered shaveh kesef and you are yotze.
However, I don't think anyone is saying that you can be mekayem the mitzva
of byomo on a different day even if the worker agreed.
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