[Avodah] The Last Nochri Who Owned The Milk

[Zev Sero]

On 26/1/19 11:33 pm, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> I didn't read the IM that way. You're pointing to his discussion of cheese
> and butter, and why they don't need to be made of chalav yisrael; wouldn't
> the milk had been assur already before it was turned into something else?

> So he answers that the issur of chalav aku"m isn't chal until it is
> owned by a Jew.

> Not that the necessary re'iyah, or as RMF would put it, "re'iyah"
> (in quotes), applies at any time after milking.

> IOW, RMF's shitah appears to be that milk that was not observed during
> milking isn't assur until owned by a Jew. And therefore, if turned into
> something else before a Jew acquires it, no issur would be chal.

You've forgotten the whole point of the teshuvah, and why he brings up
cheese & butter at all. The question he's answering is how the "re'iya"
at the company helps, when the company buys its milk from farms, and he
explicitly says that there is no "re'iya" at nochri farms and that it's
forbidden to buy milk there. So how can we buy from the companies?

He uses the examples of cheese & butter to prove (1) that the issur
is chal only when it comes leyad yisroel, and (2) that if there is no
cheshash about the last nochri, who made the cheese or butter, then
we don't care that he bought the milk from a nochri about whom there
is a cheshash. We only care about the "akum sheni", not about the
"akum rishon".

 From this he concludes that we don't need "re'iya" at the farm that
produces the milk, since the farmer sells it not to a yisroel but to
the nochri-owned company, and we buy it from the company where we have
"re'iya" that it didn't do anything.

It follows inevitably that if the company sold the milk to an "akum
shlishi" then our need for "re'iya" must apply only to him. And since
it comes to his hands in tamper-proof containers, our "re'iya" with him
is much stronger than our "re'iya" with the company. Therefore leshitas
RMF, we no longer need to rely on any kind of inspection or on any need
to buy people's silence. We know for certain that the nochri retailer
did nothing to the milk, just as we know he did nothing to the packaged
kosher meat we may also buy from him. And what happened at the plant
can't be more relevant than what happened at the farm.

(BTW even in this teshuvah RMF remains under the impression that most
of a company's milk comes from its own cows, and it only supplements
with purchases from farmers. As far as I know this has never been the
metzius, and is not now. Milk is produced by farms and sold to processing
companies or co-ops.

Also RMF seems to assume that at the plants the inspectors are either
there constantly or come very frequently, whereas at farms they come
rarely. I don't know whether the first assumption is correct but I can
confirm the second. State inspectors come maybe three times a year. On
the other hand the farm workers know that they may come at any time,
even in the middle of the night, and are definitely mirsesi from that
possibility even though it rarely happens, whereas RMF assumes they
are not.)

-- 
Zev Sero            A prosperous and healthy 5779 to all
zev at sero.name       Seek Jerusalem's peace; may all who love you prosper