[Avodah] Whether You Come to Talk to God, to Your Friends or to Both, Shul is a Place For You: A Measured Call Regarding Talking in Shul

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 04:49:10PM +0000, Professor L. Levine via Avodah wrote:
: Please see the article at https://goo.gl/fsMEir

: IMO one of the reasons why people talk in shul is because davening
: on Shabbos morning often takes a long time. If there are speeches,
: Me Shebeirachs, announcements, etc, then people get restless.

While I agree it's a factor, I think it's a minor one. Yes, people do
chat more once they gets started during Mi sheBeirakh. (Many shuls have
instituted short-cuts to announcing the names in the Mi sheBeirakh leCholim
to minimize this effect). But it's not like the problem is any less in
Hashkamah Minyanim or my own 9-11am Shabbos morning minyan. Or, as RAM
noted, even at a weekday Maariv.

Also, R Efrem Goldberg refers to repeatedly talking in shul as an "epidemic".
I don't know. My experience has been that talking has been in a constant
decline since my childhood. Yes, it's still ubiquitous in some places, but
more and more shuls do manage to maintain decorum.

REG writes:
:> Talking during these parts of davening is not only disrespectful to God,
:> it is also unkind, insensitive, and cruel to those trying to offer
:> heartfelt and focused prayers. It is a gross violation of bein adom
:> l'chaveiro. If you wouldn't talk during a show, the opera or a movie,
:> no matter how bored or distracted you might be, how could you entertain
:> talking when people around you are in the middle of a conversation with
:> Hashem, even if you are done? It is hard enough to connect with our
:> prayers, to concentrate on the words and to feel we have experienced an
:> intimate rendezvous with our Creator in the best of circumstances. To
:> do it while people in our vicinity are chatting away is nearly impossible.

So the answer I would give falls out from this paragraph... It's that
we might know intellectually that we are conversing or holding a meeting
with the Creator, but for many of us, that's not an experienced reality.

Talking in shul is only a symptom. As is the experience many shuls have
where people tend to show on time for Barekhu or Shochein Ad, and are
folding their tallis during Adon Olam.

I have repeatedly said that if I ran a shul, I would teach what davening
is about. It would reduce the boredum. And for those for whom that's not
enough, it would make the idea of "lifnei Mi atah omeid" more of a
reality. Where people wouldn't have the chutzpah to talk.

(After all, bored people could be silently learning too. There is no shortage
of well written parashah sheets, illustrating every point with an engaging
story, if need be.)

Yelling "Don't! Don't! Don't!" when people have no motive not to will do
little but annoy. Shuls that don't have the problem licked have given us
decades of evidence of this. We need to motivate people to be talking to
G-d, and the problem of talking to friends will evaporate on its own.

Here's a litmus test... I have often, in my usual style of eschewing
normalcy, have gone over to people who interrupted their davening for
something (eg a woman who was davening while waiting for the train, as
she sits down in the train and reopens her siddur), or the fellow whose
mind wantered in shul) ... I would go over to them and say, "Tell Him
I say 'hi!'" Of course, they can't hear the capital "h". Sad to say,
while it's a significant minority, only a minority of people get Who
I am talking about. There is a dirth of people who remember they are
talking to G-d. "If you don't know who I mean, you're not davening right."


Start with teaching the hashkafos of tefillah, from R' Chaim Volozhiner, the
Besh"t, Moharan and RSRH.

Teach various techniques to turn muttering syllables into avodah shebeleiv,
whether hibonenus or hispa'alus or ...

And teach peirush hamilim, Ri Yaqar, Avudraham, R Breuer, R Meir Birnbaum,
...


Again, if I ran a shul, here's how I would adapt minyan for today's
short attention spans:


1- Between Yishtabach and Barekhu, a 5 minute shiur on either how to
approach tefillah in general, or about something the minyzan is about
to say. (As above.) By the time you make it from Barekhu to UKhashanim
Qadmonios, you could do another cycle. No one will remember a derashah
from years ago.

As for questions about hefseiq -- it is for tefillah. CYLOR, but I would
bet it's fine.


2- If possible without attracting everyone frustrated that their shul
banned their Kiddush Club...

In the yeshivos in Litta (and in Camp Munk in my childhood), there
was a seder between leining and Mussaf. The Torah is returned before
Ashrei, IIRC.

If davening is too long for the current generation, do the same. Have
the rav's derashah be during Qiddush before Mussaf. Maybe even a shiur,
and just close with a vertl long enough to repreat at the Shabbos table.
Break up the service into two pieces.


Since I've started on how I would modify shul norms, other changes I would
institute that have nothing to do with the talking and late-in-rush-out
problems:


3- Chessed programming -- something that involves some subset of the
membership hands-on (not fundraising) in an at least weekly basis. Shuls
provide both Torah and Avodah, why not be a full Judaism Center and
provide opportunities for Gemilus Chassadim too? At least if the shul
sponsors something, there is a different atmosphere about what a shul
and Yahadus are.


4- Mussar Ve'adim -- one for each gender, although given the Ahavas
Yisrael Project <http://ayproject.com/site/index.php> 's presence in
Passaic, the men's va'ad would be more critical. The idea isn't just to
have a chaburah in a mussar sefer, but to have a group that actually works
together on their middos. (AishDas set up a few groups that meet weekly
going through the ve'adim and doing the exercises in Alei Shur vol II.)


5- Every Elul, offer a Teshuvah Workshop with a wider audience than
those willing to commit to full-year ve'adim. Host speakers giving
actual techniques for change. Rather than being all motivated and well
intended on Aseres Yemei Teshuvah, but not having a strategy to actually
get anywhere. (And that's in a good year! Then we wonder why our list
of things to fix is the same year after year...)


6- The membership agreement would include an ethics and dina demalkhusa
clauses. In the "Shomerei Shabbos" type shuls of 70 years ago, those
who were fighting upstream to retain their Shabbos observance created a
supporting atmosphere by creating synagogues in in which only shomerei
Shabbos could retain full membership in the shul. We need something
similar to shore up what's weak in today's observance.

This is largely unenforceable, as we're not going to have accountants
check people's books. But the point is to be clear on values and intended
culture. It combines with the chessed programming and the ve'adim at
adding Gemilus Chassadim to an institution whose format has already grown
to include Torah and Avodah. I realize both of those programs would
in the real world be limited in population. But they make a statement
to the majority of the membership. There is secondary involvement --
helping out once, donating money, just reading about it in the shul
email -- that make an impact on everyone. As would knowing there are
ethical standards in the by-laws / membership agreement.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For those with faith there are no questions.
micha at aishdas.org        For those who lack faith there are no answers.
http://www.aishdas.org                     - Rav Yaakov of Radzimin
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