[Avodah] Who is an considered an am ha'aretz

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Sep 05, 2018 at 08:51:46AM -0400, Prof. Levine wrote:
:>:> Judaism without Torah is "just another religion," and is not in consonance
:>:> with the will of G-d. Ritual is common to all religions; the unique
:>:> quality of Yiddishkeit is the special relationship with Hashem that a
:>:> Jew achieves only through Torah study.

:> It would appear that R Schwab does not take "Judaism is not a religion" as
:> literally as you do. After all, he describes it here as a religion, if
:> one with a unique quality.

: You have reached an incorrect conclusion regarding Rav Schwab's
: views  regarding RSRH's brilliant assertion that Judaism is not a
: religion,  which, by the way, Rav Hirsch makes in a number of places
: in his writings.

I didn't deny RSRH writing as much. What I argued was that he was using
religion in a technical sense to make a point. For example RSRH wasn't
denying that Yahadus includes revealed teachings about how to be good
and have a positive relationship with deity.

Merriam-Webster, "religious" (1): "relating to or manifesting faithful
devotion to an acknowledged ultimate reality or deity". And "religion"
(1): "the state of a religious", "b (1) : the service and worship of
God or the supernatural (2) : commitment or devotion to religious faith
or observance".

Are you really arguing that Yahadus isn't identifiable with avodas Hashem?

I think RSRH was playing True Scottsman games with the word religion
when he crafted that aphorism. There are thinkers in every religion
claim their belief system is uniquely a lifestyle in a way that other
religions are just religions.

I took it along the same lines as Mensch-Israel, that calling Judaism
a "religion", is like when I write about how Yahadus can't be reduced
to frumkeit.

: The sefer Rav Schwab on Chumash was written by one of his son's ,
: Rabbi Myer J. Schwab....

Who, I presume, is a greater authority on his father's and on RSRH's
beliefs than either of us. Why should I take for granted your overly
literal reading of RSRH (which doesn't fit context in RSRH's writings),
over his?

: Furthermore,  I could assert logically that the statement Judaism
: without Torah is just another religion does not imply that Judaism
: with Torah is a religion!

Well, from those words, Judaism + Torah would be religion-plus.

: I am certain that Rav Schwab agreed totally with RSRH's brilliant
: insight that Judaism is not a religion.

I am sure he did. I just don't think it means what you've repeatedly
insisted it did. As I described above, denying the religious nature of
Yahadus denies basic features of what it is.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             One who kills his inclination is as though he
micha at aishdas.org        brought an offering. But to bring an offering,
http://www.aishdas.org   you must know where to slaughter and what
Fax: (270) 514-1507      parts to offer.        - R' Simcha Zissel Ziv