[Avodah] Maharat

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Wed, Jun 07, 2017 at 06:58:57PM -0500, Noam Stadlan via Avodah wrote:
: The point is that it wasn't set up that way, and Gedolim like the Chatam
: Sofer write explicitly that it wasn't set up that way...

But you neither explain

1- If it is a "distortion of history and Halachic : history" to claim
that current yoreh-yoreh is an imitation of the elements of true Mosaic
semichah that are still meaningful, how and why the Rambam, Tosafos and
the Mahariq the Rama quotes lehalakhah all derive laws of yoreh-yoreh
from Mosaic semichah for dayanus?

Nor

2- How the CS's claim -- citation would be helpful -- that today's
semichah is "merely" an Ashkenazi minhag means that this minhag was
not set up to certify who is standing in the shadow of the true Mosaic
musmach?

Don't we need something explicit from the CS before we can just assume
he would not deduce the rules of the minhag from the rules of true
semichah. After all, you're setting him up against the precedent of
doing just that (in Q #1).

See the AhS YD 242:29-30. He explains that contemporary "semichah"
is to announce to the nation that (1) he is higi'ah lehora'ah, and (2)
his hora'ah is by permission of the ordaining rabbi. (He also requires a
community to have a rav ha'ir, and others need the RhI's reshus to pasqen
in his town as well.)

This is much like what you said the CS says, as well as the Rivash.
And the Rivash, which appears from your quote is the CS's source,
talks about hora'ah -- just as the AhS does.

In any case, I am looking for the Tzitz Eliezer's discussion of Sepharadim
and their not accepting the notion of contemporary "semichah". Because
IIRC, his discussion about semichah, not higi'ah lehora'ah.

Recall, AISI the real question isn't the nature of a semichah, but how
can be higi'ah lehora'ah. Semichah is only a good belwether, because it's
not meaningful to say yoreh-yoreh to someone who can't give hora'ah with
or without that permission. And it's semichah the CS dismisses as minhag;
the extra gate can be minhag without changing who is allowed to enter.

The discussion of semichah doesn't touch on who can give hora'ah, it is
just out one precondition before actually doing so.

:           Furthermore, what you are saying is not the explicit position of
: the Rambam, Tosafot, and the Rama(I still haven't been able to find the
: Mahariq), it is your understanding of those sources...

I don't know what you mean. Does the Rambam derive halakhah from dayanim
musmachim with Mosaic semichah to today's morei hora'ah or not? Does
Tosafos? Do they not take it for granted that the laws are consistent
between the two, without which those derivations would not work?

What exactly is your other understanding? (To reword Q #1.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

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