[Avodah] Another approach to Ruth's geirus

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 29/05/17 15:51, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Mon, May 29, 2017 at 10:26:55AM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
> :     . Whether Yiftach was a link in the chain through which the
> : mesorah reached us is a machlokes, but lechol hade'os he was the
> : "godol hador" -- that's an explicit gemara, "Yiftach Bedoro Kishmuel
> : Bedoro".
> 
> The article in question cites Tanchuma (Bechuqosai #5) in describing
> Yiftach, "shelo hayah ben Torah".

Yes, precisely.  And yet he was the "gadol hador".


> Is it possible that Yifrach bedoro has to do with our
> obligation to follow their leadership, even though the gemara is ignoring
> whether we are speaking of Torah of of civil leadership in doing so?
> 
> Yes, it's dachuq.
> 
> But I find the idea of talking about somoene being the hadol haor but
> not part of the shalsheles hamesorah at least equally dachuq. I'm
> not even sure what being a link means, if it doesn't necessarily include
> the generation's gedolim.

Your unstated but clear assumption is that "gedolei hador" means 
"gedolei *hatorah* shebador".  I am challenging that assumption.  I am 
saying that when Machlon & Kilyon are described as "gedolei hador" it 
does not mean that they were talmidei chachamim, any more than it means 
that when Yiftach is described as "kishmuel bedoro".  It just means they 
were the generation's leaders, and thus if they did wrong everyone else 
would follow their lead.  Meanwhile Pinchas was still the gadol hatorah.

Remember, "Yiftach bedoro" is an explicit gemara, so the Rambam can't 
dispute it.  So how can this machlokes between Rashi & the Rambam, that 
the article posits, exist?  This is how.  The Rambam accepts Yiftach 
bedoro, that Yiftach was indeed the "gadol hador", but that is 
irrelevant to his topic; he is listing who passed the Torah down from 
that generation to the next, and that was not Yiftach but Pinechas.


> I also do not share your assumption that there was /a/ gadol hador. I
> think I know the roots of your having that assumption in Chabad theology,

Wow.  Just wow.  No, it has nothing to do with Chabad *or* theology. 
It's an explicit pasuk and gemara.  Yiftach was the one and only gadol 
hador, because the pasuk says so, and he had the same authority as 
Shmuel because the gemara says so.  But one wouldn't ask him a shayla 
about "an egg in kutach".

-- 
Zev Sero                May 2017, with its *nine* days of Chanukah,
zev at sero.name           be a brilliant year for us all