[Avodah] Agudah [was: Support for Maaseh Satan]

[via Avodah]

From: Eli Turkel via Avodah  <avodah at lists.aishdas.org>

<<The Agudist (at least  classically, there were exceptions
in the early years of the state, and  things seem to be wearing down now)
believe that Jews can regain sovereignty  over EY for the first time in
2 millenia without it being religiously  significant.>> [--I don't know who 
is being quoted here]

R Yoel bin  Nun has given this argument for many years. He understands DL 
and Satmar but  claims that the Agudah poisition basically denies that G-d 
affects history. We  now have a state for some 70 years that appears to be 
very successful but is  against the wishes of G-d.

-- 
Eli Turkel
 
>>>>>>
 
All through Tanach there are examples of reshaim who succeed  (if only for 
a while).  Obviously it is Hashem's wish that they succeed,  even if it is 
not His wish that they sin.  
 
What is remarkable and miraculous about the last century of  history in 
Eretz Yisrael is how Eretz Yisrael has been built up, the growth of  
agriculture, cities, the economy, the Jewish population, and most of all the  amazing 
growth of Torah living and learning -- despite secular socialist  Zionism.  
The Medinah gets some credit but what is most remarkable is that  so much 
good has happened despite the Medinah or even very much against the  will of 
the secular government.  There is so much ohr vechoshech  mishtamshim 
be'irbuvya.  Nevertheless it is impossible /not/ to see the Yad  Hashem in the 
overall course of events over the past century.  How many  prophecies are coming 
true before our very eyes!
 
 
A thriving economy grew up under the very feet of the  socialists!  Is that 
not a miracle?!  Has such a thing ever happened  in any other country?! 
 
:- )

 
So what is the Agudah's position?
 
In November 1947, when the UN voted for the establishment of the Jewish  
State, the Agudah made the following declaration:
 
--begin quote--
The World Agudas Yisroel sees as an historic event the decision of the  
nations of the world to return to us, after 2000 years, a portion of the Holy  
Land, there to establish a Jewish state and to encompass within its borders 
the  banished and scattered members of our people.  This historic event must 
 bring home to every Jew the realization that ***the Almighty has brought 
this  about in an act of Divine Providence*** [my emphasis] which presents us 
 with a great task and a grave test.  We must face up to this test and  
establish our life as a people, upon the basis of Torah.  
 
While we are sorely grieved that the Land has been divided and sections of  
the holy Land have been torn asunder, especially Yerushalayim, the holy 
city,  while we still yearn for the aid of Mashiach tzidkeinu, who will bring 
us total  redemption, we nevertheless see the hand of Providence offering us 
the  opportunity to prepare for the geula shelaima if we will walk into the 
future as  G-d's people.
 
--end quote--
[quoted in __To Dwell in the Palace: Perspectives on Eretz Yisrael__ edited 
 by Tzvia Ehrlich-Klein, 1991]
 
The above is still fairly representative of the hashkafa of broad  swaths 
of Klal Yisrael who are charedi or charedi-leaning, yeshivish or  chassidish, 
neither Satmar nor Dati Leumi.  That is, the majority of all  frum Jews in 
America and Eretz Yisrael.
 
 
 
--Toby  Katz
t613k at aol.com
..
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