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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000
size=2 face=Arial>From: Eli Turkel via Avodah
<avodah@lists.aishdas.org><BR><BR><<The Agudist (at least
classically, there were exceptions<BR>in the early years of the state, and
things seem to be wearing down now)<BR>believe that Jews can regain sovereignty
over EY for the first time in<BR>2 millenia without it being religiously
significant.>> [--I don't know who is being quoted here]<BR><BR>R Yoel bin
Nun has given this argument for many years. He understands DL and Satmar but
claims that the Agudah poisition basically denies that G-d affects history. We
now have a state for some 70 years that appears to be very successful but is
against the wishes of G-d.<BR><BR>-- <BR>Eli Turkel</FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000
size=2 face=Arial>>>>>>></FONT></FONT></DIV>
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<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000
size=2 face=Arial>All through Tanach there are examples of reshaim who succeed
(if only for a while). Obviously it is Hashem's wish that they succeed,
even if it is not His wish that they sin. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
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FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000
size=2 face=Arial></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><FONT style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" color=#000000
size=2 face=Arial>What is remarkable and miraculous about the last century of
history in Eretz Yisrael is how Eretz Yisrael has been built up, the growth of
agriculture, cities, the economy, the Jewish population, and most of all the
amazing growth of Torah living and learning -- despite secular socialist
Zionism. The Medinah gets some credit but what is most remarkable is that
so much good has happened despite the Medinah or even very much against the
will of the secular government. There is so much ohr vechoshech
mishtamshim be'irbuvya. Nevertheless it is impossible /not/ to see the Yad
Hashem in the overall course of events over the past century. How many
prophecies are coming true before our very eyes!</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>A thriving economy grew up under the very feet of the
socialists! Is that not a miracle?! Has such a thing ever happened
in any other country?! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>:- )</DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So what is the Agudah's position?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>In November 1947, when the UN voted for the establishment of the Jewish
State, the Agudah made the following declaration:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--begin quote--</DIV>
<DIV>The World Agudas Yisroel sees as an historic event the decision of the
nations of the world to return to us, after 2000 years, a portion of the Holy
Land, there to establish a Jewish state and to encompass within its borders the
banished and scattered members of our people. This historic event must
bring home to every Jew the realization that ***the Almighty has brought this
about in an act of Divine Providence*** [my emphasis] which presents us
with a great task and a grave test. We must face up to this test and
establish our life as a people, upon the basis of Torah. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>While we are sorely grieved that the Land has been divided and sections of
the holy Land have been torn asunder, especially Yerushalayim, the holy city,
while we still yearn for the aid of Mashiach tzidkeinu, who will bring us total
redemption, we nevertheless see the hand of Providence offering us the
opportunity to prepare for the geula shelaima if we will walk into the future as
G-d's people.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>--end quote--</DIV>
<DIV>[quoted in __To Dwell in the Palace: Perspectives on Eretz Yisrael__ edited
by Tzvia Ehrlich-Klein, 1991]</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>The above is still fairly representative of the hashkafa of broad
swaths of Klal Yisrael who are charedi or charedi-leaning, yeshivish or
chassidish, neither Satmar nor Dati Leumi. That is, the majority of all
frum Jews in America and Eretz Yisrael.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#0000ff><STRONG>--Toby
Katz<BR>t613k@aol.com</STRONG></FONT><FONT lang=0 color=#ffffff size=2
face=Arial PTSIZE="10" FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><STRONG>..</STRONG></FONT><FONT
lang=0 color=#0000ff size=2 face=Arial PTSIZE="10"
FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><BR><STRONG>=============<BR><BR><BR></STRONG>-------------------------------------------------------------------</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
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