[Avodah] Better to die

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Areivim we were discussing how some activity could be labeled
yeihareig ve'al ya'avor. Along the way I wrote that it couldn't be
because the enviroment includes gender mixing. I concluded:

:                        Arayos isn't yeihareig ve'al ya'avor until it's
: actual relations. I'm not even sure that yeihareig ve'al ya'avor would
: apply to bi'ah with a willing penuyah (who is not a niddah).

Two people asked me off list to look at Sanhedrin 75a.

In it, a man was so love-sick for a woman that he would die unless he
could speak to her; at least through a fence. According to either
R' Yaaqov bar Idi or R Shemu'el bar Nachmeini, she was even a penuyah.
(Peligi bah... chad amar...)

But one could learn from that gemara that it would NOT be yeihareig
ve'al ya'avor:

    Bishloma according to the man da'amar she was an eishes ish,
    shapir.
    But according to the MdA she was penuyah -- mah kulei hai?

Two answers: R' Papa says because it's a pegam mishpachah, R' Acha
berei deR' Iqa says "kedei shelo yehu benos Yisrael perutzos ba'arayos".

So what's the exchange saying? That it is yeihareig ve'al ya'avor
because of the consequent peritzus? Or that bishloma an eishes ish
would be YvAY, but a penyah, who isn't, why wouldn't the guy be
allowed to speak to her?

As I said on Areivim "I am not even sure" which, because the gemara
could be taken either way.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 16th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        2 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Tifferes: What type of discipline
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