[Avodah] Farfetched Ukimtas

H Lampel via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Mon Mar 20 11:52:15 PDT 2017



On 3/20/2017 1:12 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> ...Perhaps by using an explanation like RMA's; RET's description of which
> really appealed to me.
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:24pm IST, Eli Turkel wrote:
>: Rav Michal Avraham has a lengthy article (in Hebrew) justifying uktimtot.
> ...
>: ... The gemara is trying to set up some
>: circumstance where no other laws affect the issue. This requires a far
>: fetched ukimta to eliminate everything not pertinent...

Personally, I don't see how this applies to the piece  RMBluke's questioned.

> Whereas the Rambam would be more motivated to go somewhere more like
> RZL's answer.
> On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:06pm EST, H Lampel wrote:
> : The author of the braissa merely listed the exceptional objects, and
> : left it for the reader to come up with the details. (This is common
> : in note-taking of a lesson, and notes written for a lecture.)
> : And/Or, having  been taught this chiddush with its details, the
> : author took down notes merely listing the exceptional objects,
> : leaving the details of circumstance to memory and/or oral
> : transmission.

...with the essential understanding that Shmuel, on behalf of whose
statement the Gemora offered the ukimtos, received or derived his stand
independently of the braissa that listed the cases without qualification.

But my son has since pointed out to me that sevara-wise, Shmuel's stand
that permanence determines whether something is considered a barrier
to tum'ah is emenantly reasonable. Furthermore, it makes perfect sense
even from the braissa itself which, in listing what is and what is not
considered a barrier to tum'ah, contrasts the listed cases (grass, bird,
etc.) with ice and snow. So again, the braissa is listing things that one
could find situations in which they would have permanence, in contrast
to snow and ice, etc., which can never have permanence (in the sages'
part of the world). What else could be the difference between these
two groups of items? The ukimtos are therefore not farfetched at all,
and really very reasonable.

Zvi Lampel



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