[Avodah] Farfetched Ukimtas

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:02:42AM +0200, Marty Bluke wrote:
: Anyone who learns Gemara knows that many times the Gemara asks a question
: on an Amora from a Tannaic source and the Gemara asnswers the question by
: saying "hacha b'my askinan ...", saying that the Tannaic source was only
: talking about a specific case which doesn't contradict the Amora's
: statement. Sometimes the Gemara offers far fetched ukimtas where it is hard
: to believe that the Tannaic source really meant that...

In addition to my first reply...

I tried in other discussions in the past to establish that when the
gemara's description of the mishnah is a far streatch for the naive
read, the Rambam's tendency is to explain the gemara in light of what
the mishnah obviously meant, and Rashi (and Raavad, Ritva, Ran...) would
explain the mishnah in light of the gemara. IOW, the majority of rishonim
would say the gemara is saying the mishnah really meant that.

Perhaps by using an explanation like RMA's; RET's description of which
really appealed to me.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 9:24pm IST, Eli Turkel wrote:
: Rav Michal Avraham has a lengthy article (in Hebrew) justifying uktimtot.
...
: His basic argument is based on a physics analogy...
: The answer is that Newton's law is a basic physical law (ignoring Einstein
: for now) . However, to apply it in practice one has to combine it with
: other physical laws like gravity, friction etc.

: The gemara is trying to do the same. The gemara is trying to set up some
: circumstance where no other laws affect the issue. This requires a far
: fetched ukimta to eliminate everything not pertinent...

(I have used the same mashal to explain why tzadiq vera lo doesn't
disturb my belief in sekhar va'onesh. SvO is a basic metaphysical law.
However, to apply it in practice...)

Whereas the Rambam would be more motivated to go somewhere more like
RZL's answer.
On Tue, Feb 28, 2017 at 3:06pm EST, H Lampel wrote:
: The author of the braissa merely listed the exceptional objects, and
: left it for the reader to come up with the details. (This is common
: in note-taking of a lesson, and notes written for a lecture.)
: And/Or, having  been taught this chiddush with its details, the
: author took down notes merely listing the exceptional objects,
: leaving the details of circumstance to memory and/or oral
: transmission.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Every child comes with the message
micha at aishdas.org        that God is not yet discouraged with
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