[Avodah] Farfetched Ukimtas

Marty Bluke via Avodah avodah at lists.aishdas.org
Mon Feb 27 01:02:42 PST 2017


Anyone who learns Gemara knows that many times the Gemara asks a question
on an Amora from a Tannaic source and the Gemara asnswers the question by
saying "hacha b'my askinan ...", saying that the Tannaic source was only
talking about a specific case which doesn't contradict the Amora's
statement. Sometimes the Gemara offers far fetched ukimtas where it is hard
to believe that the Tannaic source really meant that. Here is an example
which we learned in Daf Yomi a few weeks ago (Bava Basra 19-20).

The Gemara discusses barriers that shield from Tumah and Shmuel makes a
statement that anything that will be removed (is only there temporarily) is
not considered a barrier. The Gemara then proceeds to ask a series of
questions from Tannaic sources that seem to say that various things that
are only there temporarily do shield from Tumah.

Here is some of the shakla v'tarya:
A Baraisa states that the following block Tumah, grass that was detached
and placed in a window, or grew there by itself; rags smaller than three
fingers by three fingers; a dangling limb or flesh of an animal; a bird
that rested there; a Nochri who sat there, a (i.e. stillborn) baby born in
the eighth month; salt; earthenware Kelim; and a Sefer Torah. The Gemara
then proceeds to ask questions on each one that it is only there
temporarily and the Gemara gives ukimtas, qualifications, for each thing to
explain why it is not there temporarily.
1. Grass
The grass is poisonous.
The wall is ruined (so the grass will not destory it)
The grass is 3 tefachim from the wall and does not harm the wall but bends
into the window
2. Rags
The material is too thick to be used for a patch
It's sackcloth which is rough and would scratch the skin.
It's not sackcloth, it's just rough like sacklocth
3. Dangling limb of an animal
The animal is tied up and can't move.
It's a non-kosher animal.
It's a weak animal.
3. Bird
The bird is tied down.
It's a non-kosher bird.
It's a Kalanisa (a very lean bird).
It's not really a kalanisa, it's just lean like a kalanisa.
4. A non-Jew
He is tied up.
He is a מצורע.
He is a prisoner of the king
5. Salt
The salt is bitter.
There are thorns in it.
It's resting on earthernware so it does not harm the wall.
5. Sefer Torah
It's worn out.
It's burial will be in the window.

In the example above the Baraisa gives a list of things that block tumah.
The Baraisa in no shape or form qualified any of the things that block
tumah, and yet the the Gemara proceeds to attach a long list of
qualifications to the objects which seem quite far fetched, for example do
we really need to believe that when the Baraisa wrote a bird (with no
qualifications) it really meant, a tied up non-kosher Kalanisa like bird?

The question is when the Gemara offers these ukimtas does the Gemara really
think that this is what the Tanna meant? Or is the Gemara just offering
logical possibilities to avoid it looking like an Amora is arguing on a
Tanna (this may depend on the reason why Amoraim don't argue on Tannaim)?
How are we supposed to approach these kinds of ukimtas when learning a daf
gemara?
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