[Avodah] Borrer Brewing Coffee Shabbos

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Dec 08, 2016 at 09:14:08PM -0500, Akiva Miller via Avodah wrote:
: To clarify: I am NOT claiming that "Posek ABC says that the problem is
: Borer but I say that the problem is M'raked." Rather, my claim is that when
: the posek says that the problem is Borer, then he is merely being
: imprecise, and the truth is that the posek himself actually means that the
: problem is M'raked.

But as I wrote further down, I am not sure the chiluq is the one you made.

To repeat:
> ... Shabbos 138a has a machloqes about whether meshamer is a toladah
> (Rabah) of boreir because it's okhel mitokh pesoles, or (R' Zeira)
> of meraqeid because the pesoles is on top of the okhel.

> Rashi says the question is which hasra'ah would work.

> Tosafos (on 73b) say it's definitely boreir, the machloqes is whether
> it's ALSO meraqeid.

> The Ran (chiddushim 137b) says that meraqeid is only with solid foods,
> unlike meshameir, which is from a liquid.

> The Biur Halakhah (319:9) says that meraqeid is a process and meshamer
> happens at once.

I would think that the Ran is saying our case is meraqeid, whereas
the BH would say it's meshamer, which in turn is either a toladah
of boreir or of meraqeid (Rashi) or it's a tolda of boreir that may
also be a tolada of meraqeid (Tosados).

In any case, saying that any boreir bekeli is really using language
loosely and should technically be called meraqeid doesn't seem to fit
any of them.

:> According to SSK (3 fn 125), RSZA is also meiqil. He argues that
:> akhila le'alter is also derekh akhiah, and allowed. Other examples:
:> using a saltshaker that has dry rice in it, putting a spoon against
:> the edge of soup-pot to make an ad-hoc strainer when pouring.

: Yes, I must admit that he does say that. But please look at footnote 179,
: just a few pages later. The SSK quotes RSZA as forbidding rice in the
: saltshaker, and then he concedes difficulty reconciling this with the
: footnote 125 that you cited.

Fn 125 was a historicaly later ruling, so I assumed it was more
authoritative. See also fn 159.

:-)BBii!
-Micha

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