[Avodah] questions about krias hatefillah

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Thu, Nov 10, 2016 at 01:17:50PM +0200, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
:> And even at the end of the 2nd Beis haMiqdash, the chasimos of Shemoneh
:> Esrei were established, but the bodies of each berakhah was pretty
:> free-form. Just make sure that the body closes with me'ein hachasimah.

: minor quiblle - I would put it a little later. Rabban Gamliel and Shmuel
: Hakatan after churban habayit are still working on the nusach. Lamalshinim
: is added later

I was basing myself on Berakhos 33a, Megillah 17b, and the Sifre
(Devarim 343). The Rambam repeatedly mentions the significance of the
fact that the authors of the Amidah were 120 zeqeinim umeihem kamah
nevi'im.

What Berakhos 28b has
    Shim'on haPequli hisdir 18 berakhos
    lifnei Rabban Gamliel al haseder, beYavneh.
Which is when R' Gamliel asks for the writing of Birkhas haMinim, and
only Shemu'el haQatan was capable of it.

Given the other sources, it could mean that there were various opinions
about the order of the 18 berakhos, and he gave them a seder. "Al
haseder" could be taken to imply there was a pre-existing "right order"
that ShP [Shim'on the cotton salesman -Rashi) was trying to match.

Shemoneh Esrei was established enough in R' Yehoshua's day for him to
refer to "me'ein 18" -- Havineinu. And he is an older contemporary of
R' Gamliel! (Recall he's the one who RG insulted, leading to the
loss of his office.)

Also, in Bavel, Shim'on haQatan's addition was made into berakhah #19.
In EY, Bonei Y-m and Birkhat David were folded together. Still, we call it
Shemoneh Esrei, impying there was an 18 berakhah structure for centuries
before Shimon haQatan, not days. Although I guess it is technically
possible that we use the EY nickname for the Amidah even as we use the
Bavli nusach that belies it, I find it implausible.

Makes more sense to me to explain Berakhos 28b in light of the other
sources.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Nothing so soothes our vanity as a display of
micha at aishdas.org        greater vanity in others; it makes us vain,
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Fax: (270) 514-1507              -Louis Kronenberger, writer (1904-1980)