[Avodah] Legions

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Wed, Aug 17, 2016 at 11:12:05AM -0400, Zev Sero via Avodah wrote:
: It seems to me that the traditional attitude is that foreign words have
: no gender, but since Hebrew grammar requires one each writer is free to
: assign them one as he pleases, with no expectation of consistency...

I think that there is generaly an attempt to match the general rule.

: the rishonim felt free to wrote of "tallethoth" or "tallethim" as they
: liked...

Actually, "Talleisim" doesn't appear until the acharonim, and only in
Ashkenaz. Bar Ilan has 47 hits for "taleiysiym" and 5 for "taleisiym"
(yuds written out to show difference in searches.) The sefarim (in
BICD hit order, not spending time sorting):
Beis Shemuel, Chasam Sofer, Penei Yehoshua, Sefas Emes, QSA, Urim,
Levushei Serad, Machatzis haSheqel, MB (and Beiur Halakhah), Sma,
AhS, Peri Megadim, Pisqei Teshuvos, SA haRav, Mas'as haMelekh, IM,
Beis Egraim, haAdmo haZaqein, Harei Besamim , Chasam Sofer, Minchas
Yitzchaq, Tzemach Tzedeq (Lub), Radal, Siach Yitzchaq, Toras Chaim,
(and without the first yud) Beis Yitzchaq, Mishneh Halakhos.

I think the earliest is the Sma, late 16th cent?

Chazal wrote tellisos or taliyos (or perhaps with a tzeirei, as you
denote), and Sepharadim never switched. It's like "Shabbosim", which is
grammatically wrong but appears in Ashkenazi at around the same time.
Probably comes from thinking in a language that has a neuter, Yiddish.

"Tallios" comes from treating the Greek "-is" suffix the way it sounds,
like a Hebrew fem diminutive "-is" suffix. But both it and tallisos are
consisten with simlah, chultzah, salmah, kutones, words for similar nouns.

See also the AhS 275:23, where he argues in favor of the spelling "petzuah
dakah" with a hei, because while the pasuq uses lshon zakhar when talking
of an "areil leiv ve'aral basar", when speaking of the eiver, the norm
is to use neqeivah, eg "giv'as ha'aralos". And he assumes that what is
true of the word "orlah" is more likely to be true of other words about
the same eiver.

(The AhS also notes that "dakah" [hei] is a fem *adjective*, while
"daka" [alef] is a masc *noun*. Citing "haGaon haChasid Maharshaz
nishmaso eiden". With all those honorifics, wondering who and why
-- he doesn't give such praise to everyone.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             A sick person never rejects a healing procedure
micha at aishdas.org        as "unbefitting." Why, then, do we care what
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