[Avodah] ohr lagoyim

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Mon, Jun 06, 2016 at 09:49:09AM +0300, Lisa Liel wrote:
:> So, nu, our influence via daughter religions and just being there to
:> shape host cultures may have fulfilled the prophecy of le'or goyim
:> either way. Yet we still have to act in a way that brings others to
:> avodas Hashem.

: Or rather, Hashem is telling us that this will be the end result.  I
: don't see any indication of an obligation on our part towards the
: nations of the world.

So you see "ve'atim tihu Li mamlekhes kohanim..." as nevu'ah, not a
tzivui?

:> Hevei mitalmidav shel Aharon ... uheiv es haberios umeqarvan laTorah.

: Good mussar, but also not a chiyuv.

(I just noticed this tied to "mamlekhes kohanim" quite smoothly.)

We also see from hilkhas geneivas aku"m that chilul hasheim and qiddush
hasheim involve whether we ch"v distance aku"m from AYH or merit to draw
them closer.

So I guess we could add qiddush hasheim and avoiding chilul among the list
of potetial imperatives that say le'or goyim in more clearly tzivui terms.


Going back to the parshanus of le'or goyim...

RET posted on Areivim in 2012 (quoted then by RnCL, with permission
at <http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol30/v30n028.shtml#11>, quoting IE
and the Radaq (49:6) that le'or goyim refers to Yeshaiah's nevu'ah 00 the
light is the nations seeing that his nevu'ah was fulfilled. And thus not
about the Jewish people at all.

To which RnCL replied citing the Rashi (as I already wrote, in one place
he takes "goyim" to mean shevatim, and thus uplifting other Jews) and then
quotes the other Radaq (42:6) and translated:
> And so you would be also l'or goyim like it says "And nations shall
> walk to/in your light -v'helchu goyim l'orech" [Yeshiyahu 60:3 - where
> it is pretty clear that it is the nation Israel being talked about]
> and the light is the Torah that shall go out to them from Tzion.

And then translating Metzudas David (ad loc):
> L'or goyim - to light the eyes of all the nations to know that Hashem
> hu haElokim.

Closing with her own thesis:
> And indeed I think that it is the other pasuk quoted by the Radak, ie
> v'helchu goyim l'orech that is the one that is the real source for the
> common understanding which is usually labelled as Or l'goyim. That pasuk
> is quoted all over the place (unlike l'or goyim), for example in dozens
> of places in midrash raba, tanchuma, pesikta d'rav kahana etc And a lot
> of the commentary in the various midrashic sources involves analogies
> between the shemen zayis that lights the Beis HaMikdash and Yisrael who
> lights the world -eg Shemos Raba which goes on to say and so our fathers
> were called zayis because they gave light to all with their emunah.
> 
> That is, to my mind, the concept which we understand to be or l'goyim is
> unquestionably there in the sources - it is just generally drawn from a
> psuk that is much more of a mouthful (Yeshiyahu 60:3). L'Or goyim, does,
> it would seem according to all the classic commentators, mean a light to
> the nations, as we would understand it, but, at least on one of the two
> pasukim where it is used, it is understood as referring to Isaiah himself,
> not the Jews in general (but note that it is clearly a good thing,
> and high praise of Isaiah, that he should be considered this). And,
> as so often seems to be the case (and as discussed with tikun olam)
> the phrase which tends to roll off the lips in the common parlance is
> not the strictly correct biblical terminology, but the one that sort of
> sounds right to the ear of the layperson to get to the concept of which
> they are aware.

To continue her thought to focus on 60:3, I see BB 75a explains vehalkhu
goyim le'oreikh" as a messianic prophecy, and someting HBH will do,
not even hilkhisa demeshichasa.

Metzudas David: "As to say, from you they will learn the ways of Hashem
and you will light their eyes." Also, not clearly a tzivui.

The Tanya 1:36 takes "vehalkhu goyim le'oreikh" as messianic, and thus
not a tzivui for the here-and-now

The Malbim takes the pasuq as prophetic and descriptive, linking the
seifa, "yeilekhu leneged zarchakha" to "ukhvodo alayikh yra'eh" in the
previous pasuq.

Okay, given 60:2, we could presume 60:3 isn't imperative either.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 44th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        6 weeks and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Malchus: What type of justice
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            does unity demand?