[Avodah] ashkenazin and yerushalmi

[Micha Berger via Avodah]

On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 01:02:07PM +0200, Eli Turkel via Avodah wrote:
: In some parts of the tefilla Nusach ashkenaz reflects some ancient EY
: versions.

As well as other pesaqim. And, for that matter, a geneological map
of the Jewish People shows that of Sepharadim and Edot haMizrach,
Ashkenazim are closest to other Jews from the Roman Empire,
rather than those from the Sassanid Empire (Bavel)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3543766/

    The population genetics of the Jewish people
    Harry Ostrer and Karl Skorecki corresponding author
...
					       Nearest neighbor-joining
    analysis robustly supported shared origins of most Jewish populations
    with clearly discernible European/Syrian/North African and Middle
    Eastern branches....

As for R/Dr Haym Soloveitchik's position, I found this
http://5tjt.com/interview-with-professor-haym-soloveitchik-by-rabbi-yair-hoffman

   YH: I have been told that in your second volume you challenge the
   widespread notion that the cultural roots of Ashkenaz are in Eretz
   Yisrael and claim that early culture of Ashkenaz was Babylonian from
   the outset.

   DS: That is correct. That Ashkenaz has a Palestinian component was
   already noted long ago by the Baalei Hatosfos. We have, for example,
   Torah and haftorah readings that do not conform to what the Bavli says,
   but with what we find in certain midrashim, i.e. those that originate
   in Erets Yisrael. This idea was taken up by Chochmas Yisoel in the
   nineteenth century. It then receded from view and was brought back and
   foregrounded some thirty years ago. By now, it is an academic truism.
   Having a Palestinian component is one thing, claiming that early
   Ashkenazic culture was Palestinian is another. I didnt understand the
   claim in the 1980s and still dont. I have registered my objections
   in print only now, for reasons that I explain in the book.

So it looks like he is objecting to a more extreme form of the claim.
Not that Ashk is a richer mix of EY and Bavel, but attacking the idea
that Ashk is a continuation of EY in particular.

In fact, RHS might even support the thesis as presented on list. And
if not, what he attributes to Tosafos and supports isn't all that far,
from our outsiders' perspective.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Strength does not come from winning. Your
micha at aishdas.org        struggles develop your strength When you go
http://www.aishdas.org   through hardship and decide not to surrender,
Fax: (270) 514-1507      that is strength.        - Arnold Schwarzenegger