[Avodah] shabbat mikes

[Zev Sero via Avodah]

On 05/13/2015 03:54 PM, Micha Berger via Avodah wrote:
> Both letzorekh mitzvah and tzarkhei tzibbur are usually classified with
> she'as hadechaq and hefsed meruba. The two combined is why shuls have such
> wide lattitude with amira le'akum. (And perhaps either alone? I dunno.)

Letzorech mitzvah is not enough to justify amira lenochri for an issur
derabanan, unless the mitzvah absolutely cannot be fulfilled without it.
For instance, if one is pitch darkness one may ask a nochri to bring a
lit candle through a communal chatzer that has no eruv, because oneg
shabbos is impossible in complete darkness; but if there is already at
least dim lighting, so that some minimal oneg shabbos is possible, one
is *not* allowed to have a nochri bring another candle.

Tzorchei tzibbur, OTOH, seems to justify amira lenochri for almost anything.


[Quoting R Rosen]
> The problems concern the decree of klei shir, the fear that one will
> repair it, hashma'at kol like a water mill, avsha milta, denigration
> of Shabbat, and the suspicion of onlookers.

He's listing the same thing multiple times.   "Hashma'at kol like a water
mill" *is* "avsha milsa", i.e. passersby will hear it running and know that
a Jew's business is operating on Shabbos, and the problem with that is that
they will think the Jew is transgressing amira lenochri.  These are not
separate issues.


-- 
Zev Sero               I have a right to stand on my own defence, if you
zev at sero.name          intend to commit felony...if a robber meets me in
                        the street and commands me to surrender my purse,
                        I have a right to kill him without asking questions
                                               -- John Adams