[Avodah] The Legacy of RSRH, Zt'L

[Ben Waxman via Avodah]

   1)  I have to admit I don't get your answer. You asked in what way 
could the state be considered a Kiddush Hashem and I gave you an answer. 
Now you reply that various rabbis wouldn't agree with that answer. Ok, 
but az mah?

    2) The Satmar Rebbe wouldn't have said that anything about the state 
is a Kiddush Hashem, no matter what it did, so I don't understand why 
you included him.

    3)  Lastly, the reply that you gave reminds me of something that Rav 
AY Kook wrote in Orot, Orot HaTechiya, Chapter 20.  He was addressing 
the question of whether or not the religious should join forces with the 
non-religious in order to work together for the Zionist cause.  Rav Kook 
used the story of the two women claiming to be the mother of a baby as 
example of people revealing their true intentions. The woman who agreed 
that the baby should be cut in half was in effect saying (according to 
RK) that there shouldn't be babies. She used others claims as way of 
hiding her true intent, but when the decisive moment came, the truth 
came out.

     Meaning - was the demand that the religious not work with the 
secular the issue or was that a cover story used to mask people's 
opposition to Zionism? Or in this case, is the demand that the creation 
of the state be a Kiddush HaShem in the eyes of all rabbanim a real 
demand or is it simply a cover? If the Breuer community want the state 
to reflect certain values, than please, make it happen. If they don't 
want to make it happen or aren't willing, than the demand is (at best) 
an exercise in dissimulation.

Ben
On 4/27/2015 1:54 AM, Prof. Levine via Avodah wrote:
 > We all know that there were great Torah scholars who disagreed with 
the assertion that " the creation of the State is, in of itself,  a 
Kiddush Hashem."  to name just 3,  the Satmar Rebbe,  Rav Breuer,  and 
Rav Schwab. They were also most certainly familiar with the gemara you 
quote and the RASHI.
 >
 > If you  had written, "Therefore, according to some Torah scholars the 
creation of the State is, in of itself,  a Kiddush Hashem."  I would not 
disagree.  However,  your blanket statement, "Therefore the creation of 
the State is, in of itself,  a Kiddush Hashem."  is IMO is not valid.