[Avodah] Gebrochts, the ShTeshuvah, MA and MHaShekel; Angels in the Mezuzah

Meir Rabi meirabi at gmail.com
Mon Mar 18 08:51:56 PDT 2013


I am going to conclude this post with the following, but I want to say it
up front:
Not eating Gebrochts during Pesach is a practice that has no Halachic
foundation and no credible logical structure. I would add that it is a type
of superstition that taints Yiddishkeit [like my previous discussion
referring to RaMBaM’s condemnation of the widespread practice of adding
names of angels into the Mezzuzah] and not that I suggest we actively
dismantle the practice of not eating Gebrochts, but that the sooner it [and
other similar practices] is abandoned, the sooner Yiddishkeit will be on a
path towards being recognised as a proper and honourable representation of
Gd’s destiny for the world.

Now that’s out of the way, I begin: I wrote on +13/03/2013 8:23 PM:
The ShaArey Teshuvah 460 makes some surprising comments about the origins
of Gebrochts.
Firstly, the risk is restricted to those batches of dough to which flour
has been added after kneading has already started. ……
I have verified this is what the ShTesh says, since it was suggested that I
misquoted the ShTesh. It is clear that the ShTesh is not just explaining
what those HarBeh – those many, who eat Gebrochts without compunction, are
relying upon. He states clearly that unless circumstances indicate a
credible risk, i.e. flour has been added to the dough during kneading,
Halacha guides us to assume that all flour becomes fully combined in the
dough. AchZukei IssuRei Lo MeChazKinan. Besides, his tracing of the origins
of this custom are brought at this point in order to explain how such a
practice could ever have begun if it has absolutely no Halachic foundation.
And that is why he begins his history tracing with the linking word, VeGam
– and also, or Besides …… the origins of this practice emerged from a
completely different concern which WAS legitimate; unlike the practice of
not eating Gebrochts for which there is NO Halachic source. It is plain
wrong to suggest that unbaked flour might remain in Matza manufactured in
the normal manner.

The Sh Tesh clearly considers the practice of Gebrochts as needless and
without Halachic foundation. Even given the now known-to-be- untrue
observation of the ShA HaRav, that flour is found on the surface of baked
Matza, the ShTeshuvah Paskens that particles of flour will NOT become
Chamets, only clumps of flour become Chamets. So flour on the surface of
the Matza is not a problem, not even LeChatChiLa.
Note that I try to avoid describing Gebrochts as a Chumrah or Minhag, not
eating Keneidelach is a misplaced and misguided practice.


Now since this discussion has turned towards the broader issue of
Gebrochts, and not just the subset I was discussing, i.e. the ShTesh; I
will expand on this.

The ShA HaRav, in Teshuvah 6, back of Hilchos Pesach, tries to support this
practice. However, if one looks with care at his sources, it is plain to
see that there is really nothing in them that relates directly to Matza.
The BYosef he quotes 461, Dibbur HaMasChil, Kosav HaRaMBaM, is explaining
what may at first appear to be an inconsistency in the RaMBaM. On the one
hand RaMBaM rules that we may cook with flour during Pesach if the flour
has been toasted. But at the same time he rules that we may not cook with
flour that has been ground from kernels of wheat that have been toasted.
The difference RaMBaM explains, is that flour is exposed to the heat more
so than the kernels of wheat and that’s why the flour has certainly been
denatured by the heat and can no longer become Chamets, whereas the kernels
may not have been denatured. (Perhaps because the inner part of the kernel
is protected from the heat or perhaps because toasting is a fine balance
between perfection and burned and the concern not to burn inclines people
to under-toast rather than over-toast.)

Accordingly, the BY proceeds to explain another Halacha of RaMBaM; pots
were annealed by heating them with either just kernels or flour, or the
pots were cleaned with some sort of a paste made from these and water and
vinegar [Peri Chadash]. After such heating, the kernels and flour are
denatured and may be used during Pesach without fear of them becoming
Chamets. [or if a paste, one may clean pots with these pastes during Pesach
without fearing they may become Chamets] The BY now explains that this
could not refer to kernels but only to flour, which is consistent with
RaMBaM’s Pesak that kernels are at risk of not being denatured and
therefore vulnerable to becoming Chamets.
Following this, BY mentions that Rabbenu YeRuCham banned the practice of
women preparing baby food from toasted flour which was then boiled, because
he fears that the flour will not be adequately heated and may become
Chamets.

Now although the SAH mentions all these as sources, none of them reflect
directly in any way upon Matza Meal or Kneidelach. We require an
intermediate step to create and seek to justify the practice of not eating
GeBrochts. That intermediate step is the SAH’s observation that everyone
can see for themselves that flour is found on baked Matza.

It is equally clear that these days we see no such thing.

It would also appear that neither has anyone else seen flour on baked
Matza. Other than the MachHaShekel 458:1, who unlike the SAH, says that
LiFeAmim, only occasionally, one finds flour not thoroughly kneaded into
the dough; it seems that no one else notes this phenomenon.
BTW, it is evident from that MA 458:1, that the MA did not consider this a
credible risk.

The SAH explains why this has not been a problem in the past. He suggests
that the methods of Matza making changed; they had begun to make the dough
with very little water and the dough was not adequately kneaded.

Although the SAH refers to the MaAvraham 463:4; and I assume for the sake
of brevity, makes it sound as though the MA is discussing Matza, the MA in
fact is NOT discussing Matza.

The SAH says that the MA Paskens that even though the Matza itself is OK
BeDiOVad, it will be Assur if it is placed into soup. However, the MA is
actually commenting on the Mechaber’s Halacha that one should not cook
toasted kernels that have been ground into flour. They may not have been
adequately toasted and may become Chamets when combined with water. It is
regarding these that he says, if they are added BeDiOvad to a pot during
Pesach, the food will be Assur.

So I conclude - Not eating Gebrochts during Pesach is a practice that has
no Halachic foundation and no credible logical structure. I would add that
it is a type of superstition that taints Yiddishkeit [like my previous
discussion referring to RaMBaM’s condemnation of the widespread practice of
adding names of angels into the Mezzuzah] and not that I suggest we
actively dismantle the practice of not eating Gebrochts, but that the
sooner it [and other similar practices] is abandoned, the sooner
Yiddishkeit will be on a path towards being recognised as a proper and
honourable representation of Gd’s destiny for the world.


Best,

Meir G. Rabi
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20130319/49004c89/attachment.htm>


More information about the Avodah mailing list