[Avodah] FW: RSRH on Metzitzeh bePeh

[Harry Maryles]

--- On Wed, 9/5/12, Micha Berger <micha at aishdas.org> wrote:
On Wed, Sep 05, 2012 at 01:50:11PM -0700, Harry Maryles wrote:
: Rav Zuriel seemed to say that the MbP is entirely a Minahg and he gave
: no hint that there is a dispute about that...

Well, that's what he holds, so yeah.

But it's not so pashut. While the gemara says that metzitzah has a health
benefit, it did not say that metzitzah was instituted FOR the health
benefit. R' Papa just says that because the mohel risked the child's
health, you should dismiss him. (Shabbos 133b)

The mishnah Shabbos 19:2 says:
    Osin kol torkhei milah: molin, upor'in, umotzetzin, venosenin aleha
    asplonis vekamon.

It is interesting that R' Papa talks about a lack of mezitzah, but not
about omitting bandaging nor the cumin (?). Similarly, the Rambam (Milah
2:2) mentions milah, peri'ah, and metzitzah alone. The shu"t Meishiv
Nefesh (2:6) concludes from this that the Rambam held metzitzah was part
of the mitzvah...

The Levush Mordechai (#30), notably a Litvak, argues that metzizah bepeh
is so repulsive of a concept, how could anyone think we instituted it
if it weren't a chiyuv? He also leaves open the question as to whether
someone who didn't have metzitzah, which he assumes requires MbP, is an
orel or can he eat from the qorban Pesach! R' YL Diskin makes the same
argument, which the IM rejects (YD 1:223)...
My point being... There are two sides to the issue. It's non-trivial,
and it's really not for us on one tzad to tell the other tzad to reject
centuries of teshuvos from their qehillah and others. Doubly so when
the people doing the call for dimissal are the historical innovators.--------------------------------
WADR to the Levush Mordechai, his argument in favor of MbP is a Sevara and TTBOMK not sourced anywhere in the Gemarah or the Rishonim. The Peh was used not because of a D'Oraisa, but because it is obvioulsy the best way of withdrawing the blood from the wound so it wouldn't become a source of collected bacteria and ultimately infected.  
That was the reason they did it  B'Peh and not because "metzizah bepeh is so repulsive of a concept, how could anyone think we instituted it if it weren't a chiyuv?" 
But that was before anyone knew that the Peh could be its own source of infection via the herpes virus and possible other diseases transmitted by the mouth.  
You say that "the shu"t MeishivNefesh (2:6) concludes from this that the Rambam held metzitzah was part of the mitzvah"
What does that have to do with anything? In no way do I say that Metzitza should not be done.  Nor is it important to me whether the reason is for health or not. I agree that it does have to be done and have never said otherwise. And even though it still seems to me from the flow of the Gemarah that it is done for health benefits - that is not my issue. Either way my issue is whether it must be done by the Peh. Where is the Teshuva that clearly shows that using the Peh is a D'Oraisa? 
HM

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