[Avodah] If you have an electronic water meter, can you turn on your faucet on Shabbos?

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 10:24:52AM +0300, Marty Bluke wrote:
: 1. Is this really lo nicha lei? Everyone would agree that you cannot
: disconnect the meter before shabbos and use the water because you would be
: stealing from the water company. Therefore, the meter recording how much
: water you used is nicha lei.  If the meter didn't record your use the
: company would not be able to charge you and you wouldn't know how much to
: pay, in essence you would be stealing. Therefore, you want the meter to
: record your use to keep you from stealing.

When I grew up in Queens, you were billed a flat rate based on the number
of fixtures you had. Or, the water company could have chosen to give you
the water. The subject of billing is lo nicha lei because that side of
the transaction /is/ separable from the receiving side. There are more
possibilities in the universe than buy vs steal.

: 2. It is not so clear that psik reisha d'lo nicha lei on an issur
: d'rabbanan is permitted....

Of course this presumes there are numbers on the meter. Otherwise, it's
not be'ein, as Lisa already noted, and we don't have to worry about nicha
lei.

In <http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol30/v30n096.shtml#03> I mention
R Josh Flug's paper "Motion Sensors and the Concept of P'sik Reishei"
and summarized his summary of a number of other sources. Your "not
so clear" implies that post was missed.

I had lost the back pages of the essay, so I couldn't give mar'eh
meqomos. Since, R' Eliyahu Gerstel sent me a copy of the paper with the
pages of cut-n-pastes of the sources. REG said it was already publicly
available at OU's web site, I put a copy up here
<http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/faxes/rjfMotionSensors.doc>.

So here is my again, with mar'eh meqomos:

The Arukh (erekh "pesaq") holds it's mutar.

Tosafos (Shabbos 103a "lo tzeikha de'avid") hold it's assur derabbanan,
as a kind of melakhah she'einah tzerkhah legufah.

The SA (OC 329:18) holds like Tosafos.

The Terumas haDeshen (1:64) allows pesiq reishei delo nicha lei when
the issur is derabbanan.

The MA (314:5) does not.

R' YE Spektor (Shu"t Be'er Yitzchaq OC #15) is meiqil like the Terumas
haDeshen.

The MB (314:11) holds like the MA, but does allow a double-derabbanan. Eg:
Closing a large box that has a bug of a sort not normally trapped
inside. Derabbanan 1: the box is large, so the bug still needs to be
cornered within the box if you wanted to hold it. Derabbanan 2: it's
not normally trapped. So, PRDNL would be mutar in this case.

Similarly, the MB discusses the more practical case of eating a cake
that has lettering
on it.
Derabbanan 1: Mechilqah shelo al menas likhto
Derabbanan 2: Derekh achilah
So, the MB concludes the Rama would hold that in this case the PRDNL
is permitted.

(Lately the local bakery is more machmir than the Rama and the MB,
and puts the frosting on a card which one can remove before cutting
the cake.)

ROY (Yechaveh Daas 2:46) only requires one derabbanan.


-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Zion will be redeemed through justice,
micha at aishdas.org        and her returnees, through righteousness.
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