[Avodah] treif anatomy [redirected from Areivim]

[Micha Berger]

On Wed, Jul 11, 2012 at 01:33:51AM -0400, T613K at aol.com wrote:
:                                                 Doesn't treif mean the  
: animal has a condition that will soon cause its death? If the farmer does a  
: procedure that creates a hole in the cow's stomach -- but he does it to 
: PREVENT  the cow's death -- why does it make the cow treif?

You asked a similar question on Sep 13 2009.

I answered then:
> The definition of a tereifah is an animal that that one of a speific
> list of mumim. The CI says it's halakhah leMoshe miSinai, and R' Moshe
> Feinstein agrees.

> OTOH, in the contet of whether someone is guilty of murder, a mum is
> only one the victim couldn't have otherwise recovered from.

That thread also discusses your next question:
:                                                           Does everyone agree 
: that this  procedure renders the cow treif, or are there poskim who consider 
: the cow  kosher?

See
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=R#RHS%20AND%20DAIRY
which has a tangent at
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=R#RHSDAIRY

as well as the prior threads from v8n60s or so which discuss the
CI's position about science and halakhah, which opens with RGStudent
mentioning tereifos:
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=C#CHAZON%20ISH%20ON%20NATURE
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/getindex.cgi?section=K#KILLING%20A%20TREIFA

RGS notes that tereifos might actually be an exception for the CI, where
in general he would hold nishtanah hateva, nishtanah hadin. But as RDE
replied (later citing CI YD 5:3), here Chazal used G-d-given reshus to
define the limits of a Halakhah leMoshe miSinai. Since it was legislating
(my phrasign), it can only be changed during the 2 millenia of Torah.
Pasq based on Chazal's understanding of metzi'us can be overturned as
our knowledge of the metzi'us improves.

(The example usually given is the permissability to be mechalel Shabbos
to save a baby after 8 months even thugh chazal thought such babies are
not viable. ALTHOUGH, I mentioned a month ago the Y-mi Yevamos 24b which
indicates that this is only true of 9 month babies. 7 month babies could
be born late in the 8th month and are viable. And since you never know
which a baby is, I think this Y-mi is a basis in Chazal for saying you
save the baby because it's safeiq piquach nefesh.)

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             What we do for ourselves dies with us.
micha at aishdas.org        What we do for others and the world,
http://www.aishdas.org   remains and is immortal.
Fax: (270) 514-1507                        - Albert Pine