[Avodah] Who is a Talmid Chacham

[Micha Berger]

On Sun, Jul 08, 2012 at 05:40:09PM +0300, Doron Beckerman wrote:
:> But the gemara is about listening to posqim. As I noted last post.
:> Which is why I don't know how you can say the idea is something like a
:> toladah to morid bemalkhus, when the gemara itself says it's lo sasur -- <<

: It just does not say that regarding the Shoftim of the Shoftim era...

RnCL's point aside, I still don't see how the gemara can be understood
this way. I realize this is now tangent-squared territory: Talking about
Yiftach was focusing on only one of my examples of a talmid chakham who
served in the army, and now we're not talking about Yiftach, but peshat
in a gemara in RH. But peshat too is worth hammering out...

I can't reply as I did off-list, cut-n-pasting the sugya and commenting
line-by-line. I never got Hebrew to work right in the digest. But to
describe the basic jist for the chevrah....

The sugya opens "T"R: lamah lo nispareshu shemosam shel zeqeinim eilu?"
And the answe is that no one should contrast the dayanim of their day to
specific members of the 70 zeqeinim. That one accepts his generations
dayanim. Which is where it segues into the comparisons between Moshe,
Aharon and Shmuel OT1H and Gid'on (Yeruba'al), Shimshon (Badan) and
Yiftach on the other.

I therefore can't see another peshat in the gemara than saying we're
discussing Yiftach as a poseiq, because the whole discussion is accepting
your generation's posqim (zeqeinim, members of BD), whether they be a
Yiftach or a Shemuel.

And I don't see how it could be topic drift, because the sugya closes with
"ubasa el hakohanim" (Dev' 17:9) which is the parashah from which we learn
"lo sasuru". Then it closes with Qoheles's warning against being overly
nostalgic. So, the whole thing begins and ends with halachic authority of
the poseqim of your generation, regardless of any stature comparisons. In
the middle Yiftach is made the topic of a stature comparison.

How is it not including Yiftach as an example of poseiq? Perhaps not
foremost (ignoring the question of who the zeqeinim are), but a TC,
surely.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             For those with faith there are no questions.
micha at aishdas.org        For those who lack faith there are no answers.
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