[Avodah] Kivrey Avos

[Zev Sero]

On 22/06/2012 12:47 AM, Daniel M. Israel wrote:
> On Jun 21, 2012, at 1:42 PM,<T613K at aol.com>  <T613K at aol.com>  wrote:

>> [1] What about the idea that those who have passed away come back and
>> go to the simchas of their relatives and descendants?
>
> I'm curious, this seems to be a widespread notion, but does anyone have
> a mekor?

The original source seems to be Zohar Pinchas 120.
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14250&pgnum=44
http://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=14250&pgnum=45

See also
http://www.bhol.co.il/forum/topic.asp?topic_id=2290202&forum_id=771


> As far as RZS's point that this doesn't apply to something done for the
> kavod (I would say zechus) of the niftar

I was quoting the Shulchan Aruch.




> the midrash itself is hard to take literally. According to the text in
> Eicha Rabba, Yirmiyahu actually went to Machpela, and then to the banks
> of the Yarden. In those days, that was a long trip. Given the text of
> Tanach, as well as the internal structure of the midrash, it is hard to
> support the notion that the incident spanned several weeks of travel.

Several weeks?!  On foot it's less than a three-day journey (taking the
gemara's measure of 10 parsa'ot a day).  On a horse or donkey it's less.


> And once we suggest that the midrash is not historic, it is entirely
> reasonable to suggest that it is relating to zechus avos, but not that
> we can specifically make requests.

A non-historical medrash still can't say he did something that is assur.




-- 
Zev Sero        "Natural resources are not finite in any meaningful
zev at sero.name    economic sense, mind-boggling though this assertion
                  may be. The stocks of them are not fixed but rather
		 are expanding through human ingenuity."
		                            - Julian Simon