[Avodah] Would Ruth's conversion be rejected today?

[Zev Sero]

On 1/06/2012 11:10 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 01, 2012 at 09:35:57AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> >  On 1/06/2012 6:13 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
>>>  Well, if RAM is speaking of yibum as a societal practice, halachic
>>>  parameters aren't an issue.

>>  Then why would it matter whether the marriage was valid?  There could
>>  just as easily be the same idea about giving the deceased's mistress
>>  a child in his name...

> Except that's not the societal norm. As far as we can tell.

How do you know what the societal norm was?  What do you know that would
indicate that they'd apply this concept to a wife but not to a mistress?
This entire line of reasoning is pure speculation, and once we do that
there's no reason to suppose they'd relax the halachic parameters in one
respect and not in others.


> Why turn this into a question instead of a data point?

Because there is no data point.  You're begging the question.

I'm saying there's no reason to suppose this had anything to do with
some hypothetical and long-extinct social idea of quasi-yibum, because
it can easily be understood in terms of social norms that still exist
today -- the ethical obligation to wind up a deceased relative's affairs
and take care of his debts, including to his wife/mistress/girlfriend
as well as his children if any.


On 1/06/2012 11:10 AM, Micha Berger wrote:
>> >  That was what motivated*Tamar*; she wanted children from the holy family,
>> >  and would do whatever it took to get some.  I don't see anything to indicate
>> >  that she cared about perpetuating Er's name.*Yehuda*  is the one who cared
>> >  about that.
> I don't see anything that limits her motive to one of the other.
>
> Yehudah didn't know it was Tamar, which kind of rules out his planning
> to perpetuate Er or Onan's lines.

Yehudah cared about it when he encouraged Onan to marry Tamar.  But
there's no indication that Tamar cared about it at all.  What she
cared about was becoming part of Yaacov's family.

-- 
Zev Sero
zev at sero.name