[Avodah] Any opinions on the kashrus of Peng Peng?

[hankman]

R’nLL wrote:
I disagree. Ha-motzi me-chaveiro, alav ha-raaya. If you're going to declare that people (even people at the time of maaseh bereishit) didn't have the right to eat without being granted the right explicitly, you have to prove it. Not just assert it and wait for others to disprove your assertion.

Hashem says "pru urvu." Does that mean that procreation was forbidden until He said that? And what's your distinction between eating and lifting your hand? Both are natural to the form and character that Hashem gave us. Hashem owns everything, including us, so when I lift my hand, am I not using something of His? Should I not have to get permission? That's the implication of what you're saying, and I don't see any justification for it.

CM responds:
I will respond phrase by phrase to the above as much of it makes no sense to me at all.

LL: I disagree

CM: Your prerogative. But is merely your assertion. You present no proof of your assertion.

LL: Ha-motzi me-chaveiro, alav ha-raaya.

CM: Total non sequitor – not even as a metaphor. This is a rule in dinei momonus and not meaningful in a philosophical discussion of defaults at the time of masei bereishis. Besides I am not being “motzi” and you are not a “muchzak” in anything except your own assertion.

LL: you have to prove it. Not just assert it and wait for others to disprove your assertion

CM: As I already said above – no more and no less than you have to prove your assertion. I did provide some authority and logic. You provided nothing but your assertion. I would be happy to hear your “proof.”

LL: Hashem says "pru urvu." Does that mean that procreation was forbidden until He said that?

CM: I have no idea, but why would it bother you if that was the case?

LL: And what's your distinction between eating and lifting your hand? Both are natural to the form and character that Hashem gave us. Hashem owns everything, including us, so when I lift my hand, am I not using something of His? Should I not have to get permission?

CM: It’s kol hanehneh ....  not kol ha’oseh ....

LL: I don't see any justification for it.

CM: That’s just your assertion again.

Kol Tuv

Chaim Manaster


-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.aishdas.org/pipermail/avodah-aishdas.org/attachments/20120511/0f4a5b56/attachment-0002.htm>