[Avodah] Theoretical and Real Shiurim

[Micha Berger]

On Fri, Apr 06, 2012 at 10:08:27AM -0400, Zev Sero wrote:
>> I was going to cite it as a 6th example, except that qiddush hachodesh
>> has "hachodesh hazeh*lakhem*" to separate astronomy from Rosh Chodesh.
>> We define, not find, RC. One can't use it to point to a general rule
>> about following pesaqim even when based on a mistake.

> And the same thing applies to Yovel, where the pasuk says "vesafarta
> lecha".  So if this is the way we counted then it doesn't matter if
> we "should" have counted a different way.  So the example from the
> Rambam fits exactly.

You would think so, but Chazal do say that bit about lakhem WRT RC,
and I couldn't find a parallel WRT yovel. Nor the "vesafarta lakh"
of omer, nor the "vesafrah lah" of a zavah. Perhaps sefirah is too
deterministic to imply that the "lekha" gives over control.

>> I am not sure you're correct. Why would the Rambam mention the geonim
>> rather than people in bayis sheini, Chazal, or the generations since the
>> geonim (e.g. "mei'avosai"), if he meant something continuous that happened
>> to run through their era.

> Becuase he didn't get the kabalah from his fathers.  The kabalah is
> specifically kept by the Geonim, who have it ish mipi ish.  The Rambam's
> own ancestry was from Spain, not Iraq.

But his chain of mesorah was from Pumbedisa via the Rif (among others).

In any case, I didn't speak of im qabbalah hi in particular, but as
an instance of halachic process creating law despite our assessment of
the facts.

It would seem that somewhere in that chain of qabbalah, there was a flaw.
It's not ish mipi ish since the first shemittah, or else an error couldn't
have crept in.

(Or perhaps someone will invoke RSS's hava amina of hidden years at the
beginning of bayis sheini to account for the yovelos?)

>>> Where is that from, exactly?  For what application....

>> R' Chaim Kanievsky, reporting on the CI's seder. Nidon didan.

> Unless he's talking about the single kezayis of matza that women eat
> (if they're not getting from the kaarah), all the kezeisim of the
> seder can be 1/3 of a kebeitza, rather than 1/2.

> Besides which, this is inconsistent with the CI's letter to RACN,
> published in Shiurei Mikveh, where he insists that even though he
> has no proof for his shiurim, "libi omer li" that they are correct,
> and he would rely on them even to permit an eishes ish to the world.
> How could he then turn around and not use them himself?

RCK (zol zein gezunt un shtark) is an eid ne'eman. You raise good
questions, but what happened, happened.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             Today is the 9th day, which is
micha at aishdas.org        1 week and 2 days in/toward the omer.
http://www.aishdas.org   Gevurah sheb'Gevurah: When is strict justice
Fax: (270) 514-1507                            most appropriate?