[Avodah] FW: [Areivim] Ohr LeGoyim

[Chana Luntz]

RET writes on Areivim:

>If one looks at the meforshim it seems that neither is right. Both Ibn Ezra
and Radak interpret the phrase as being a light to the nations but the
>meaning is not that Israel is a light to the nations but rather that
Isaiah's prophecies will be a light o the nations when they see they are
fulfilled.
>So it has nothing to do with Jews being in exile serving any purpose.

Well it seems to me that that is not the full picture.  While Rashi, on 42:6
says that goyim can mean shvatim, so that (presumably) the idea is the
Isaiah is a light to the tribes of Israel and indeed Radak does, as you say,
on 49:6 say that it is Isaiah himself and Isaiah's prophesy that will in the
future be a light to the nations when they see that such prophesies are
fulfilled.  But on the other hand on 42:6 Radak says:

 ...וכן תהיה גם כן לאור גוים, כמו שאמר והלכו גוים לאורך, והאור הוא התורה
שתצא להם מציון,...:

"And so you would be also l'or goyim like it says "And nations shall walk
to/in your light -v'helchu goyim l'orech" [Yeshiyahu 60:3 - where it is
pretty clear that it is the nation Israel being talked about] and the light
is the Torah that shall go out to them from Tzion."

And Metzudas David on 42:6 says
לאור גוים - להאיר עיני הגוים כולם לדעת שה' הוא האלהים:
L'or goyim - to light the eyes of all the nations to know that Hashem hu
haElokim.


And indeed I think that it is the other pasuk quoted by the Radak, ie
v'helchu goyim l'orech that is the one that is the real source for the
common understanding which is usually labelled as Or l'goyim.  That pasuk is
quoted all over the place (unlike l'or goyim), for example in dozens of
places in midrash raba, tanchuma, pesikta d'rav kahana etc  And a lot of the
commentary in the various midrashic sources involves analogies between the
shemen zayis that lights the Beis HaMikdash and Yisrael who lights the world
-eg Shemos Raba which goes on to say and so our fathers were called zayis
because they gave light to all with their emunah.

That is, to my mind, the concept which we understand to be or l'goyim is
unquestionably there in the sources - it is just generally drawn from a psuk
that is much more of a mouthful (Yeshiyahu 60:3).  L'Or goyim, does, it
would seem according to all the classic commentators, mean a light to the
nations, as we would understand it, but, at least on one of the two pasukim
where it is used, it is understood as referring to Isaiah himself, not the
Jews in general (but note that it is clearly a good thing, and high praise
of Isaiah, that he should be considered this).  And, as so often seems to be
the case (and as discussed with tikun olam) the phrase which tends to roll
off the lips in the common parlance is not the strictly correct biblical
terminology, but the one that sort of sounds right to the ear of the
layperson to get to the concept of which they are aware.

Regards

Chana

On Fri, Apr 20, 2012 at 6:48 PM, Lisa Liel <lisa at starways.net> wrote:

> **
> You'll pardon me if I don't accept a mistranslation on Wikipedia.  
> Look up those pesukim, please, and let me know what you find.  In Hebrew.
>
> Lisa
>
...
>
> At 11:06 AM 4/20/2012, Lisa Liel wrote:
>
> Actually, if you can find me a place where the phrase ohr l'goyim 
> exists in Tanakh, I'll send you $20.  Standing offer.  The actual 
> phrase is l'ohr goyim.  Which means nothing about us being a light 
> "unto" anyone.  Among the darkness of the nations, we shine brightly.
>
--
Eli Turkel