[Avodah] Achashverosh

[Lisa Liel]

On 3/11/2012 9:10 AM, Prof. Levine wrote:
> At 09:52 PM 3/10/2012, Lisa Liel wrote:
>> On 3/10/2012 2:25 PM, Eli Turkel wrote:
>>> << Honestly. Â He wrote an entire book arguing about how Chazal were 
>>> totally
>>> wrong about the Persian period.  The fascinating thing is that his 
>>> primary reason for holding this position is that Greek sources say 
>>> they were.  But then in this article, he suggests numerous times that
>>> Herodotus was wrong about fairly major things. >>
>>>
>>> The problem is that Tanach agrees with Herodotus and not with 
>>> Chazal. In order for the Talmud to use their chronology they are 
>>> forced to say that various different names in Tanach refer to the 
>>> same king while in fact the list aligns exactly with various Greek 
>>> sources.
>>
>> It doesn't, really.  Nor does the Tanach agree with Herodotus.  I 
>> mean, we could just go straight to Darius the Mede, who doesn't exist 
>> in Greek sources at all, let alone Herodotus.  That alone disproves 
>> your assertion.
>
> Is not this discussion tied to the "hidden 168 years" that Rav Shimon 
> Schwab wrote about in Comparative Jewish Chronology?  See 
> http://tinyurl.com/7ltutjb  where it says
>
>     * *In "Comparative Jewish Chronology" (/Traditions,/ New York,
>       1962), Rabbi Shimon Schwab explained that the 165 years were
>       intentionally removed from the calendar in order to conceal the
>       time of the Mashiach.  The rabbis were following a "/Divine
>       command/ conveyed by an angel to Daniel to "seal the words and
>       close the book" at the end of a long prophesy which begins in
>       Chapter 11:1 and ends at Chapter 12:4 in the /Book of Daniel"/ 
>       Rabbi Schwab links this passage with another in the Talmud.  "In
>       Pesachim 62b we hear of a /Book of Genealogies/, which,
>       according to Rashi, was Mishnaic commentary on the Book of
>       Chronicles......The Talmud informs us that this important book
>       was hidden!  No reasons are given.....Rav (ca. 220-250 CE,
>       Babylon) is quoted to have observed, "since the day the /Book of
>       Genealogies was hidden, /"the strength of the wise had been
>       weakened and the light of their eyes dimmed." *
>     * *Thus, Rabbi Schwab explains /why /the years are missing. The
>       Time Tapestry explains /how/ they were hidden. The rabbis used
>       three systems to accomplish this goal.*
>
> I have posted Rav Schwab's essay at http://tinyurl.com/5u7l3v   It 
> deals in detail with reconciling Jewish dates with secular dates. YL

Rav Schwab write an essay in 1962 in which he raised this as a 
hypothetical.  He didn't "explain that the 165 years were intentionally 
removed from the calendar"; he suggested that such an argument could 
possibly be made.  For those who would like to read what he actually 
wrote, it was actually posted to this very list back in 2003: 
http://www.aishdas.org/avodah/vol11/v11n018.shtml#03

When Rav Schwab saw that people were misreading his words the way this 
"Time Tapestry" person has, he wrote a retraction in his 1991 book of 
essays.  It's really poor form to suggest that Rav Schwab meant 
something he specifically said he did not mean.

Lisa

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