[Avodah] superbowl maaariv

[kennethgmiller at juno.com]

I wrote about
> Allowing a combined Mincha-Maariv minyan in the same post-Plag
> and pre-Night block of time, which ought to be avoided, but is
> allowed simply to maximize minyan attendance. Basically it comes
> down to balancing the convenience and desires of the attendees,
> against the goals and ideals of Torah, does it not?

When I wrote this, my primary intention was for the most glaring example of it, which occurs in the summer, when many communities (mostly in Chu"l, but I think it is becoming popular in EY too) begin Shabbos early, with Mincha-Maariv which are both after Plag and before Shkiah. From what I've seen, only a small number of "early Shabbos" minyanim are careful to schedule Mincha *before* Plag.

But I had a secondary intention as well, and for this purpose I deliberately used the vague word "night" rather than using a more unambiguous halachic term. It seems that some listmembers did not catch my point, so now I'm going to be more explicit.

For example, R' Dorron Katzin wrote:

> In most (but not all cases), Mincha is before sunset and
> Maariv is after sunset.

For Sunday through Thursday, I'd agree with this observation. But my point is: Is sunset relevant to this halacha?

If one is going to say Mincha after Plag, then one should delay Maariv until after the day is over, and there is a wide range of possibilities of when this occurs. Sunset is certainly among the candidates for this, but it happens to be the earliest of them.

If Mincha is said just before sunset, and Maariv is said just after sunset, has he satisfied the halacha of not saying the two in the same halachic period? In my opinion, the correct answer is: "sort of". The time just after sunset is certainly not considered nighttime regarding melacha on Motzaei Shabbos. To consider it nighttime for this halacha involves a compromise on how strict we're going to be for the situation.

Do not misunderstand me! I am NOT saying that davening Maariv right after sunset is wrong! The ONLY thing I'm saying is that it DOES involve a compromise between what is halachically correct, and what is convenient, which is exactly what this "superbowl maariv" thread is all about.

R' Eli Turkel made a point very similar to that of R' Dorron Katzin. He wrote:

> In my experience this is a difference between EY and outside
> EY. In EY we wait some 20-25 minutes between mincha before
> shkia and maariv after shkia. In the US all the shuls I went to
> had a 2 minute break between mincha and maariv.

Yes, but that's earlier than you end Shabbos, isn't it? (The luach in my Siddur Minchas Yerushalayim shows Motzaei Shabbos to be about 35-40 minutes after shkia.) So this too is a compromise.

Again, I'm not saying that anyone is doing anything wrong. I'm just highlighting that the community must find some balance between ideals, practicality, and convenience.

Merely as an illustration, I'll close by mentioning the practices of the various shuls in my community. In most shuls, Maariv is delayed until about 10-15 minutes after shkia during the week, but on Motzaei Shabbos it begins about 5-10 minutes before Shabbos ends (as determined by the Mara D'Asra, whose calculations are irrelevant to this discussion). One shul, however, takes a very different approach: During the week, they begin Maariv immediately after shkia, and after Maariv the gabbai always reminds the tzibur to repeat Krias Shma "in the proper time". In that shul, Maariv does not begin on Motzaei Shabbos until Shabbos has ended (when, of course, no reminder about Shma is needed).

(Note: It may appear to some that this post places an undue weight and significance towards equating the zman of Motzaei Shabbos with the zman of Tzeis Hakochavim. I plead guilty. There are many different shitos and calculations for all of these, but ultimately, decisions have to be made, and those decisions always need to strike a balance between various considerations, which is what this thread is all about.)

Akiva Miller

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