[Avodah] karas hatov? required??

[Micha Berger]

On Tue, Jan 24, 2012 at 03:23:31PM -0600, Lisa Liel wrote:
> I don't think that's how I'd put it.  Rather, I'd say that in the case  
> of the government, they're simply giving me what they owe me.  In the  
> case of a storekeeper, who does not exist for my sake but benefits me  
> nonetheless, gratitude is appropriate.

Your reisha might depend on whether what I receive is more valuable to
me than what I receive. Someone with two sons on SSI may very well be
getting back more than they pay in taxes.

For that matter, insurance is worth more than its expected payoff by
preventing financial catastrophe. If the expected payoff were greater,
insurance companies would go broke. If the value to the consumer were
less than his payments, he wouldn't buy it.

The same non-linearity of value may also apply to mandatory unemployment
insurance, even though it doesn't affect whether or not someone pays in.

Also, I am obligated to pay into the gov't whether or not I end up needing
to be a recipient. Hakaras hatov for what I receive may therefore be
divorced from whether or not it was originally my money.

Doesn't R' Chanina segan hakohanim (Avos 3:2) require hakaras hatov of
the gov't just for creating the fear that reduces crime? Or are we told
to praying for its peace for other reasons?

But what I think is more important.

Hodaah is a transitive middah -- I am thankful to the provider.

Hakaras hatov is intransitive, it does not really involve the
provider. This is how covering bread, which had no choice in being a
provider, can be an exercise in haqaras hatov. Or Moshe's not doing the
first three makos, even though the Nile and sand didn't have a choice,
nor care if they are plagued.

Lisa's reasoning fits hoda'ah, but it becomes less compelling WRT
hakaras hatov.

Tir'u baTov!
-Micha

-- 
Micha Berger             If you won't be better tomorrow
micha at aishdas.org        than you were today,
http://www.aishdas.org   then what need do you have for tomorrow?
Fax: (270) 514-1507              - Rebbe Nachman of Breslov