[Avodah] emes

[Lisa Liel]

On 8/11/2011 2:24 PM, Micha Berger wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 11, 2011 at 10:35:04AM -0700, Saul.Z.Newman at kp.org wrote:
> : rMB:
> :>  that caring about historicity is itself a non-mesoretic
> :>  attitude
>
> : how does that jive with the midah of Emes ? is Truth to be
> : defined within a parameter of falseness that is acceptable? ...
>
> If you insist that all these stories are historical, that's sheqer
> and assur (midevar sheqer tirchaq). But if you use the story about
> Napolean without caring if it really happened or not, you simply
> aren't looking into the question of history. Ignoring the topic.
>
> Halakhah doesn't deal in true/false propositions, but in law. Halakhah,
> and in fact, the Torah as a whole, isn't the ultimate Emes but the path
> one takes to Emes. The original intent of the rav who made a statement
> is a fact; how the statement is interpreted by the flow of mesorah is
> law. And halakhah is law, and thus is defined by the flow of mesorah,
> not historical fact.
>
> History inspires. Some (R Prof Y Levine) more than others (me). But it
> isn't the central topic of Torah. So, why is this the particular emes
> we need to explore? Why can't we just leave the question open, and
> focus on those things the mesorah does?

I don't agree.  If implications differ from historical fact, that's 
fine.  But if an actual statement of fact is factually untrue, I have a 
real problem with that.

When I teach classes, one of the first things I do is tell the people 
there that as far as I'm concerned, every single midrash and aggadeta is 
true, without exception.  But not every one of them is factual.  That, 
in fact, if they're factual, that's all but a matter of coincidence. 
But if the Gemara said (for example) that Abbaye had red hair, and a 
reliable historical source was found that said he wasn't, I'd find that 
problematic.  That doesn't mean I'd automatically accept the other 
source -- maybe it's mistaken -- but it would be something I'd need to 
see resolved.  In the name of emet.

Lisa

Lisa